Winkie time: failed phase sensor

[gstallons]

And nothing "caused" this to happen ?

[CagivaRider]

The insulation was rock hard. The break was right at where it was tie-wrapped to the frame. It was probably just twenty years of vibration and heat.

[docc]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:45 AM, gstallons said:

And nothing "caused" this to happen ?

 

59 minutes ago, CagivaRider said:

The insulation was rock hard. The break was right at where it was tie-wrapped to the frame. It was probably just twenty years of vibration and heat.

Thanks for asking, gstallons, and the reply, CagivaRider. 

I learned the hard way that wiring should be zip-tied loosely to anchor points lest this very thing occur. A tightly tied wiring point becomes a heat sink and the metals work-harden from the focus of vibration. 

A point that should be added the Tank Off Maintenance Checklist . . .

[edit: There, done. Thanks for pointing this out, @CagivaRider!]

">Be certain the wiring lead from the Phase sensor is not "Zip-tied" tightly to the frame leading to a wiring break and sensor failure. Repeat the process of locating and releasing any and all wiring that is anchored tightly to hard points. Re-tie loosely to avoid wiring failures."

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Go Winkie light is connected to the supply to the ECU

Obviously if you dont have 12 Volts to the ECU it won't spark or power up the injectors

It was Doc that gave it the name, blame him.

[Pressureangle]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:55 AM, Pressureangle said:

If you have open circuit between all 3 pins, it's dead-dead. 

As @Tomchrimentioned above, this is a very common Fiat sensor. *IN EUROPE*. As it turns out, *no* fiat or any other car that uses this sensor was ever sold in the Western Hemisphere- I spent literally days hunting it. Not available in the U.S. except through Italian motorcycle distribution (expensive) I bought one on eBay for $18 from Romania. Sure would be nice if we had a steady European source. 

I just received this one in the mail today, and though it's not been installed and tested I found it by cross-reference and it appears identical to the original MG part; it came from CARS245.com. Manufactured by Meat & Doria, which is cast in to the plastic of the sensor itself. It was shipped from Latvia and came in the door for $26.47.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193389988386

Chased it back to M&D; https://cars245.com/en/item/meat-doria-87074-sensor-crankshaft-pulse/

Cars245.com also carries the OEM Marelli unit. https://cars245.com/en/catalog/?q=87074

A lot of Italian businesses do not ship to the US. I did not discover whether cars245.com does or not; the item I bought on ebay was shipped from Latvia, but came as brand new in the M&D box. 



If you search '87074' in ignition systems & components within eBay, there are many sources, all in Europe. 

[docc]

1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

I just received this one in the mail today, and though it's not been installed and tested I found it by cross-reference and it appears identical to the original MG part; it came from CARS245.com. Manufactured by Meat & Doria, which is cast in to the plastic of the sensor itself. It was shipped from Latvia and came in the door for $26.47.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193389988386

Chased it back to M&D; https://cars245.com/en/item/meat-doria-87074-sensor-crankshaft-pulse/

Cars245.com also carries the OEM Marelli unit. https://cars245.com/en/catalog/?q=87074

A lot of Italian businesses do not ship to the US. I did not discover whether cars245.com does or not; the item I bought on ebay was shipped from Latvia, but came as brand new in the M&D box. 



If you search '87074' in ignition systems & components within eBay, there are many sources, all in Europe. 

Another good one for the Encyclopedia of Compatible Parts!

[Pressureangle]

Oh and FWIW, I couldn't source a sensor shim; I was at 0.00". I found that a rocker arm steel shim is a perfect fit on the sensor body and fits between the screws, giving a nice 0.010" space. 

[Pressureangle]

Just another data point for future thread readers;

I re-installed my old, highly suspect cam sensor- I'd already confirmed intermittent switching with a DMM. But to be sure after thoroughly inspecting the ignition wiring/coils/wires/caps/plugs with new parts where necessary, I returned the old sensor to service. The bike ran very smoothly and cleanly but for a stumble about 4200 rpm. I thought perhaps it was due to overfuelling by the newly restored injectors but the following day on the third lap around the block to check fuel changes (to no effect I might add) it went down on one cylinder and weakly at that. I drifted into the gas station for a minute (left my wallet home so no gas) and after a couple minutes cooling drove back finely to the house, about 1.5 miles away. This was precisely the same symptoms I experienced when I first bought the bike- the sensor failed with heat. The before/after test showed the stumble at 4200 even in neutral, and completely vanished with the new sensor installed. Tomorrow I'll re-install the fairing and get a hot test.

[Chuck]

Fading memory says the spec for sensor clearance is .030".. but it may just be a false memory.

Ok ok.. I went out and looked it up. Between .6 and 1.2mm.

[Pressureangle]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Fading memory says the spec for sensor clearance is .030".. but it may just be a false memory.

Ok ok.. I went out and looked it up. Between .6 and 1.2mm.

All inductive sensors I've known have been pretty much the same, called out at .025" + or - .010". The stop working near .050". 

Mine actually had witness marks on the tip where it actually made contact with the tone ring, but it went 20k miles like that over a few years so I'm not blaming that- however, I was sure to clearance the replacement properly.
Heavy truck and many automotive ABS sensors are mounted in a simple metal bracket with a tight slip fit, and are set for clearance by pressing them to zero against the tone ring. They find their home when bearing clearance pushes them back just a bit. (This also causes many ABS fault lights when bearings are loose or enough dirt collects to push them back too far)