Can't Get Guzzidiag to Connect to Bike!

[80CX100]

13 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Correct me if I'm wrong with the OP's original issue but the Guzzidiag "reader" file has nothing to do with Guzzidia connecting. The "reader" file or software is for reading and downloading the ECU map file in a .bin format so that it can be read and manipulated in human format in Tunerpro as required. You then use the Guzzidiag writer to re write the modified maps.

The Guzzidiag software is a separate stand alone  software and allows you to see what parameters the ECU is seeing in real time and make adjustments to the CO for example on the 15m and on later ECU reset the throttle base setting and turn the closed and open loop on and off and also read and clear faults on all ecu's.

Ciao   

Hey Phil,     Yes you're right, the guzzidiag is a stand alone program, but the chip in the cable needs a driver to function so guzzidiag can see, connect and read the ECU, guzzidiag alone without a driver for the cable won't be able do do that, afaik.

                    The GD reader driver will perform this driver function on the chip and I think accepted best practice now is to load this driver instead of the FTDI CDM driver.

                     Iirc the latest tutorials mention quite a few times to use GD reader rather than the supplied/available cable driver.

                     fwiw

                    Kelly

[Lucky Phil]

31 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

Hey Phil,     Yes you're right, the guzzidiag is a stand alone program, but the chip in the cable needs a driver to function so guzzidiag can see, connect and read the ECU, guzzidiag alone without a driver for the cable won't be able do do that, afaik.

                    The GD reader driver will perform this driver function on the chip and I think accepted best practice now is to load this driver instead of the FTDI CDM driver.

                     Iirc the latest tutorials mention quite a few times to use GD reader rather than the supplied/available cable driver.

                     fwiw

                    Kelly

Yes understood, but aren't these the cable drivers require? not the reader/writer programs.

If you buy the approved KKL Guzzi adaptor then it loads its own driver for the cable and if you use the non approved for want of a better phrase USB-KKL Adaptor then you should use the one indicated here, 2.08.14 or it will automatically load a net based version which can be problematical?

 

Ciao

[80CX100]

45 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Yes understood, but aren't these the cable drivers require? not the reader/writer programs.

If you buy the approved KKL Guzzi adaptor then it loads its own driver for the cable and if you use the non approved for want of a better phrase USB-KKL Adaptor then you should use the one indicated here, 2.08.14 or it will automatically load a net based version which can be problematical?

 

Ciao

My understanding is there are a whole bunch of different cables and drivers that were used and can be used; some worked, some didn't, but that the Lonelec cables were the most likely to work trouble free without issues. That seems to be the confirmed by feedback from other users.

Further along that line of thinking the GD reader was the least problematic driver to use with the Lonelec cable.

You brought up a point about Windows searching on the net for drivers, I forgot to mention it to the OP, but I disabled/turned off my modem on my laptop when I tried to use GD to prevent any issues.

Initially, I had a very hard time getting Windows 10 to allow me to open GD reader, whenever I just double clicked on GD reader to open, Windows 10 kept recognizing it as a threat and deleted the file, I had to reload it a few times, and learned to right click,,, open,,, then read,,, that procedure seemed to work around Windows 10 security from blocking it's installation.

fwiw

Kelly

[Lucky Phil]

4 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

My understanding is there are a whole bunch of different cables and drivers that were used and can be used; some worked, some didn't, but that the Lonelec cables were the most likely to work trouble free without issues. That seems to be the confirmed by feedback from other users.

Further along that line of thinking the GD reader was the least problematic driver to use with the Lonelec cable.

You brought up a point about Windows searching on the net for drivers, I forgot to mention it to the OP, but I disabled/turned off my modem on my laptop when I tried to use GD to prevent any issues.

Initially, I had a very hard time getting Windows 10 to allow me to open GD reader, whenever I just double clicked on GD reader to open, Windows 10 kept recognizing it as a threat and deleted the file, I had to reload it a few times, and learned to right click,,, open,,, then read,,, that procedure seemed to work around Windows 10 security from blocking it's installation.

fwiw

Kelly

Same here but window didn't delete just a warning pop up and when you selected "further info" you then clicked "run anyway" and away it went. maybe thats something for the OP to consider. 

But the original point? What is shown in my image are the cable drivers and not the reader/writer. Unless I accidentally stumbled my way through it you can use guzzidiag without downloading the reader writers. I'm sure I correct on that. Some people will never want to download their map/.bin file and just want GD for general tune up purposes.

Happy to be proven wrong because I'm no computer wiz, but.

Ciao 

[pete roper]

Have you read Mark's instructions over at Griso.org. ? If not do so. It might be worth reaching out to him as well. Despite his reputation he doesn't bite!

[80CX100]

4 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Same here but window didn't delete just a warning pop up and when you selected "further info" you then clicked "run anyway" and away it went. maybe thats something for the OP to consider. 

But the original point? What is shown in my image are the cable drivers and not the reader/writer. Unless I accidentally stumbled my way through it you can use guzzidiag without downloading the reader writers. I'm sure I correct on that. Some people will never want to download their map/.bin file and just want GD for general tune up purposes.

Happy to be proven wrong because I'm no computer wiz, but.

Ciao 

     Hey Phil,     As I've said a few times here and other threads, I'm reluctant to offer advice on something I know so little about, but I sense the OP's frustration, I've btdt.

           I don't think you accidently stumbled through it at all; you had a good set of cables, with good drivers and luckily your laptop's OS gave you a warning and the option to run and install the chip driver. You're right, with all that working, GD can operate for tune ups without a reader installed. I think that early on, that was considered the best practice.with GD.

           Iirc, from the latest tutorials, the consensus seems to be, the best practice now, to eliminate confusion and conflicts with the OS and GD, is to disregard loading the chip driver and just install the appropriate GD reader file to drive the chip/cable. 

           The first time I used GD on my Griso, I was 5 minutes hooking the computer/cable/bike up, but it was 5 frustrating hours of double checking my set up and rereading instructions before I finally launched the appropriate GD reader to drive the chip and was able to see the ECU on my bike, for some u/k reason, Bill Gates and MS liked the 5M? GD reader file and allowed me to double click the file and open it.

          At that point I figured I had it nailed and knew what I was doing and it would be smooth sailing using GD going forward,;it wasn't.

          When I tried to launch the GD 15x reader file to work on my CalVin, Bill Gates and MS decided it was a threat and deleted the file, you got the courtesy of a warning, I didn't get that; no pop up, no warning, nothing, the GD 15x reader file just vanished, deleted from my laptop, because Bill and MS determined it was a threat and knew what was best.

          I had to reload GD 15x reader file and watch it vanish a few times, before I figured out how to work around Bill Gates and MS, and that was without another chip driver loaded confusing the OS system.

          That's why I made the suggestion to the OP of cleaning up the chip driver files from his computer. MS 10 in the past has obviously caused problems looking at only one driver and puked,,,, throw a 2nd driver into the mix to confuse the issue, and I can see MS 10 puking and throwing  a hissy fit and possibly doing that without giving you any warning or other options, btdt.

     GD is an amazing tool and empowers guzzi owners to do things that owners of other brands can only dream about.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful to Beard, the generous genius, and everyone else involved in GD's creation and evolution, but as a Luddite easily frustrated by all things digital, when I see other people struggling with it, I'll offer what little I can.

    I'm in agreement, if it ain't broke don't fix it, you've got a good set of cables and drivers and it's working for you, the OP's not there yet.

    I'm confident that the OP will get GD going, I suspect it's probably MS10 blocking things in the background and throwing the FTDI CDM driver into the mix just muddies murky waters even more..

    fwiw

    Kelly

          

           

      

[docc]

How about it @mznyc ,  progress? Looks like cosmo is having similar issues . . .

[bentombed]

did you ever get this sorted? i'm having the same issues now. 

[80CX100]

On 8/4/2020 at 9:35 AM, docc said:

I like referring to that as the "Run" Switch. Interesting that it gets its current through the Sidestand Switch when the sidestand is up (stowed)  while rolling down the road in gear.  When the stand is down, the Run/Kill Switch gets its current through the gearbox Neutral Switch and Relay#3 (middle).

Any chance, mznyc, that circuit is blocking your Run Switch from working with the sidestand up, bike in neutral?

"Will the bike start and run in neutral with the stand down?

If so, your Run Switch is working fine on the Neutral Switch/relay circuit. There would be no benefit to using the Sidestand Switch instead."

"That’s normal. The Clutch Switch only locks out the starter. Once running, it will run in neutral with the stand down?"

 

Hey Docc, In an effort to keep info organized I'm adding this post, hoping that you'll see it and share some insight with me.

I struggled like h*ll to get my 2003 V11 Lemans to connect with Guzzidiag to adjust the CO trim. On a whim I tried it with the side stand down and it connected.

Imo that's completely counter intuitive, with the side stand down, I thought if anything the safety switch "may" lock out the ignition & GD, but on my bike with the side stand up, clutch pulled in the bike starts and runs, but for some reason, GD won't connect with the side stand up.

I saw your a/m  posts, re the funky wiring/safety switches and would love to hear your thoughts. Is my bike an anomoly or typical.?

Being unable to connect with GD with the side stand up, does that indicate a hidden wiring/connection issue that my flare up and cause me grief?

All these funky connection issues that some V11 owners have been reporting, have they solved them mysteriously unaware,by simply putting the side stand down,because that's exactly what I did.

While I've got your attention; In my search to cure this issue I stumbled across much info in regards to CO trim levels. I can't remember if it was Beetle,Guzzisteve,Wayne Orwig ?...., but I noted it was someone's opinion that I valued in tuning EFI guzzis; they related that from experience they had witnessed through electrical gremlins that positive CO trim levels, had inverted from initial high positive settings to low negative settings.

When I checked my CO trim, it was -26. I'm wondering if that was initially a positive setting. I'm considering +26 as my baseline with my more open breathing leaner tuning set up.

I'm running stock air box w bell mouths stretched open a bit, stock headers w crossover, Mistral Cross over, Mistral Carbon Ovals no DbK. My air bypass screws were both seated completely(richer?) I'm following your decent tune up guidelines and have the air bypass screws out one turn (leaner?)

After reading much positive feed back from higher CO trim levels, with my set up what are your thoughts?

I welcome any input from anybody that has a comment or something I should be thinking about or considering.

Tia

[docc]

Working backward through your inquiries (only to the extent of my understanding and experience, YMMV):

The air screws will not appreciably "richen" or "lean" the fueling., expect minutely at idle.  No no ever fixed their significant running issues moving the idle screws. I have certainly found mySport idles more reliably at a stop (especially stuck in traffic) in our local hot/humid conditions.

I have never sen the CO Fuel Trim on our V11 ECU wander around or reset on its own. That said, it has been observed that an attempt is made to change the CO setting and it appears to reset, but the next time the setting is viewed it never changed and is seen at where it was before the attempt (not that it changed back, but never acctualy changed. The double digit negative settings were common from the factory, and again, is really about throttle plates at idle position and "just cracked open" with less and less effect on air-fuel-ratio as the plates are opened more and the rpm rises into the desirable ranges (over 4,000).  I, arbitrarily, moved my CO Trim to 11 chasing what turned out to be minute vacuum leaks at the vacuum taps. I've just left it there. "Maybe" it helps a bit at that 2800 rpm abrupt ignition advance increase in the mapping (but doesn't solve it, especially in high ambient temperatures).  Nothing wrong with trying some higher CO settings, but the outcomes are pretty much impossible to quantify.

Regarding guzzidiag connectivity, the prompts instruct to leave the Run Switch on and switch the bike on and off with the Ignition Switch. If your V11 would not connect with the sidestand up, I would investigate your "Neutral Switch" circuit.

1) Is your Neutral Indicator Light on with the bike in neutral?

2) Will your bike sit in neutral and run with the sidestand down?

3) Running, in neutral with the sidestand down, (perform this check with the CLUTCH LEVER PULLED IN ! ), when it is shifted into gear does the bike shut off?

[80CX100]

Hey Docc, Tks very much for the detailed response.

My neutral light is working and lights up when it's in neutral.

Re the changing CO trim levels due to not saving properly,I've witnessed that myself,this was different.

Iirc it was Beetle, that knew for certain,a bike had been set at ie +20 and at a later date the setting of 20 stayed the same, but the + was now a - with a setting of -20. fwiw,idk.

From working it, I can tell, the initial owner of my bike was a good involved owner;when I saw the CO trim at -26, I wondered if possibly, with all of the electrical, connecting/disconnecting,I've done & a dead battery by PO,etc had possibly caused a "burp" in the ECU changing it from +26 to -26.

Now that I've got the GD connection issue figured out, when I get back into it, I'll play with it a bit and do those 2 tests with the side stand/neutral to see how it responds.

Tks very much for your help

[docc]

That your Neutral Light comes on suggests the Neutral Switch and its connection are functional, but does not verify the function of the #3 (middle) relay or its connections. . .

[80CX100]

23 minutes ago, docc said:

That your Neutral Light comes on suggests the Neutral Switch and its connection are functional, but does not verify the function of the #3 (middle) relay or its connections. . .

HHhhmmmm, I know the layout of the relays seem to be different from old to new bikes,,, but I did have a couple of those relays out and a jumper wire disconnected for quite a while.

I was intending to run a volt meter by connecting there per KiwiRoy's suggestion,, but I didn't want to mess up the stock wiring so I hardwired a quick disconnect from the battery to my volt meter instead.

I'm thinking I probably reconnected that jumper wire between the 2 relay terminals on the wrong contacts.

ph#wk, lol,, I'll take a hard look in that area

Tks very much, 

[docc]

The 2002-on change to relay function involves shifting the starting demands to the Ignition switch instead of the #1/Start Relay.

The middle/#3 "Sidestand Relay" (that is pulled in by the Neutral Switch NOT the Sidestand Switch) remains unchanged throughout the range.

Of my three questions, you only answered #1 . . .

[80CX100]

5 hours ago, docc said:

1) Is your Neutral Indicator Light on with the bike in neutral?

2) Will your bike sit in neutral and run with the sidestand down?

3) Running, in neutral with the sidestand down, (perform this check with the CLUTCH LEVER PULLED IN ! ), when it is shifted into gear does the bike shut off?

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

So Yes to all 3, you're batting a thousand.

I'm very curious what your diagnosis is Docc