Relays

[LowRyter]

1 hour ago, Kane said:

Hi gstallons,

all five relay sockets have four spade connectors; none of them has a fifth connector. I posted a picture of the relay sockets a few posts up.

Thanks

The number one relay has five active connections.  But five prong relays will work in any on the locations.  

 

Oh this much more complicated as I read on.  Someone hotwired the first two relays.  I didn't even understand why or how or what that blue thing is.

[jtucker]

16 minutes ago, docc said:

So, that discussion is about using separate relays and direct wiring for the headlights, but not about the existing relays and how they are wired in the factory harness.

That wiring actually bypasses both Relay#1/Start Relay and Relay#2/"Headlamp" Relay to supply power through a dedicated headlamp harness from the battery.

Thanks for that clarification - I missed that detail and it left me scratching my head.

__Jason

[docc]

11 minutes ago, jtucker said:

Thanks for that clarification - I missed that detail and it left me scratching my head.

__Jason

Yeah, those alternate headlamp harnesses with their own fused power and separate relays for hi- and lo- beam were a way to deal with the overloaded relays early on. My Sport has this system, but no longer used since finding a reliable LED headlamp unit.  And High Current micro relays (OMRON G8HE).

The very first issue my dealer addressed on my Sport (within a couple months) was to send me a larger relay for the #1 position. Later (~2002), Moto Guzzi changed the wiring harness to power Relay#2 from the Ignition Switch instead (like older Guzzis with "Startus Interuptus"®).

[gstallons]

I have gone to uninsulated butt connectors and heat shrink . This is the only approved method for FoMoco wiring repairs . I have done it for 3 years now and will never go back to anything else . Get this and practice doing it . After talking to smarter people a long time ago , I threw away about 5 lbs. of the Scotch-Lock connectors . P.S. do not modify the factory wiring unless you know what you're doing and why you're doing it . The guy that messed up the original wiring had good intentions . He just knew enough to mess things up .

 You should be able to get good uninsulated butt connectors and heat shrink w/gooey inside to make repairs . You can buy the good stuff where they sell good stuff . 

[gstallons]

2 hours ago, docc said:

Yeah, those alternate headlamp harnesses with their own fused power and separate relays for hi- and lo- beam were a way to deal with the overloaded relays early on. My Sport has this system, but no longer used since finding a reliable LED headlamp unit.  And High Current micro relays (OMRON G8HE).

The very first issue my dealer addressed on my Sport (within a couple months) was to send me a larger relay for the #1 position. Later (~2002), Moto Guzzi changed the wiring harness to power Relay#2 from the Ignition Switch instead (like older Guzzis with "Startus Interuptus"®).

I fixed my black frame by using the start relay to power a larger relay to operate the starter solenoid . Pretty good idea . I used it on our farm tractor to keep from burning up the N switch or starter solenoid . It has been  working for 12 years . Remember , relays are used to handle amperage a switch can't / shouldn"t  carry .

[Kane]

4 hours ago, docc said:

Yep, the green/white power input to Relay#2 is what would come from the 5th pin of Relay#1. 

Thank you

Quote

Not many micro relays in the world have the rated capacity to handle that current through the weaker NC contact, but your G8HE OMRON will do it.

Cool. It sounds like these are an improvement over other relays. Would they be used for other bikes’ needs as well? like older Guzzi’s, Ducatis, et al? When I finally win the lottery I plan on having a stable of crazy Italian iron......perhaps I should buy more of these relays before the remaining stock of 2500 is gone!

Quote

Once that ScotchLok is off, try to make sure it has not damaged the power wire to Relay#1. By design, they cut into the strands.

[Kane]

23 minutes ago, gstallons said:

I have gone to uninsulated butt connectors and heat shrink . This is the only approved method for FoMoco wiring repairs . I have done it for 3 years now and will never go back to anything else . Get this and practice doing it . After talking to smarter people a long time ago , I threw away about 5 lbs. of the Scotch-Lock connectors . P.S. do not modify the factory wiring unless you know what you're doing and why you're doing it . The guy that messed up the original wiring had good intentions . He just knew enough to mess things up .

Thanks for the great advice! Just to be sure that I follow,  butt connectors are the metal tubes that are crimped down to join the ends or wires? Do you also solder them, or is crimping enough? 

23 minutes ago, gstallons said:

 You should be able to get good uninsulated butt connectors and heat shrink w/gooey inside to make repairs . You can buy the good stuff where they sell good stuff . 

Where is that? I’m guessing that it’s not Radio Shack.

[Kane]

While we’re talking about relays, what exactly does #3 do? I have read here (someplace) that it Is for the side stand and neutral. I am pretty sure that my side stand circuit has been disabled because the bike will run in gear with the side stand down. But what is the “neutral” function of relay #3? If I pull relay #3 my neutral dash light remains on. Is it for something other than the neutral dash light?

[gstallons]

go to an electrical supply store for terminals , heat shrink tube , etc. 

 I will study the side stand circuit and let you know . Is your N light on or off at all times ?

[docc]

8 hours ago, Kane said:

While we’re talking about relays, what exactly does #3 do? I have read here (someplace) that it Is for the side stand and neutral. I am pretty sure that my side stand circuit has been disabled because the bike will run in gear with the side stand down. But what is the “neutral” function of relay #3? If I pull relay #3 my neutral dash light remains on. Is it for something other than the neutral dash light?

Relay#3 is the least stressed relay in the stack. It is energized by the Neutral Switch so the bike will start and run with the stand down. In gear, the Run Switch gets power through the Sidestand Switch when the stand is up (no relay). Calling Relay#3 the "sidestand Relay" is a misnomer and source of confusion, IMO.

The Neutral Light is lit by the Neutral Switch before the relay, so will be lit even though the relay is absent or may have failed.

That your bike will start in gear suggests a stuck Sidestand Switch, its wires crushed together (like under the alternator cover), or (perhaps most likely in your case) some PO decided to defeat the switch and hot wired it (twisted the wires together) upstream from the switch. Follow the wiring upstream from the sidestand and look for an ugly blue box (ScotchLok! ).

[gstallons]

I am with docc . If someone else has been fixing things , they have probably f'd with this too .  Check everything .  

Disclaimer : I am not smart , just full of ignorant mistakes and learned from a few .