Very strange electrical problem

[NicoNZ]

It is probably simple to solve once the problem is identified since it was running fine before it was put off the road for maintenance. So before I start, the tank and air box have been off, Swing arm and rear shock have been out. Only connectors pulled have been the two gas tank ones. 2003 Cafe Sport. 

So on powering up there is no fuel pump prime. No neutral light and it will not turn over. No lights on the dash. (neutral and oil is what I would expect). Only the park light turns on.

When you turn the key off, the oil light comes on and the headlight also comes on. No fuel pump prime or neutral light and it will not turn over. I can have the lights and the oil light turn off by either pulling the 15A lights fuse or clicking the bike into first gear. Put the fuse back in or click the box back in neutral and everything stays off as it should with the key off. This is very repeatable.

I have changed all the relays around with no difference. All the contacts look nice and clean. Two Bosch and 3 Tyco relays.

The 30 amp fuse and holder is in great shape.

Got to be something simple ..........thanks in advance......oh and yes when trying to start or get the fuel pump to prime i have the side stand up and clutch disengaged.

Cheers,

Nick

[NicoNZ]

Will  check tomorrow as it has been suggested I could have left an earth wire off the battery. I remember there being a few but I have only reconnected 2. Its been 5 months so memory is a little vague and the crafty little cable might have slipped out of my sight!

[docc]

With both the Fuel/Ignition and the separate Lighting harness affected, it is either something central (mixed up or missing battery terminals/ something amiss under the fuse block). Or it is more than one thing contributing.

Battery terminals are a great start place. Protect your ECU case from a stray spark from the positive side!

Did the main ground to the back of the gearbox get removed and not replaced?

[gstallons]

I do know this much , we all need a blown up wiring diagram next to us while we are on this forum .

[docc]

2 hours ago, gstallons said:

I do know this much , we all need a blown up wiring diagram next to us while we are on this forum .

Right? And realize the Lighting/Switching Harness changed once.  Pretty sure the Fueling/Ignition Harness remained the same except for the fuel pump connections. (Pretty sure . . .)

[Lucky Phil]

17 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

It is probably simple to solve once the problem is identified since it was running fine before it was put off the road for maintenance. So before I start, the tank and air box have been off, Swing arm and rear shock have been out. Only connectors pulled have been the two gas tank ones. 2003 Cafe Sport. 

So on powering up there is no fuel pump prime. No neutral light and it will not turn over. No lights on the dash. (neutral and oil is what I would expect). Only the park light turns on.

When you turn the key off, the oil light comes on and the headlight also comes on. No fuel pump prime or neutral light and it will not turn over. I can have the lights and the oil light turn off by either pulling the 15A lights fuse or clicking the bike into first gear. Put the fuse back in or click the box back in neutral and everything stays off as it should with the key off. This is very repeatable.

I have changed all the relays around with no difference. All the contacts look nice and clean. Two Bosch and 3 Tyco relays.

The 30 amp fuse and holder is in great shape.

Got to be something simple ..........thanks in advance......oh and yes when trying to start or get the fuel pump to prime i have the side stand up and clutch disengaged.

Cheers,

Nick

A correction to start with, if you've had the airbox off then you will also have disconnected the ambient temp sensor mounted to the airbox as well. Wont be that unless the plug is trapped somewhere shorted out I guess.

Have you thought about the ignition switch? They have a habit of creating strange issues and a disassemble and clean usually fixes them.

Ciao 

[NicoNZ]

8 hours ago, docc said:

With both the Fuel/Ignition and the separate Lighting harness affected, it is either something central (mixed up or missing battery terminals/ something amiss under the fuse block). Or it is more than one thing contributing.

Battery terminals are a great start place. Protect your ECU case from a stray spark from the positive side!

Did the main ground to the back of the gearbox get removed and not replaced?

Yes a strange one. No the Gearbox ground was not removed. Checked the terminals this morning and have three connections for positive and two for the negative. Could not see any other wires missed but will pull the battery for a better look around this evening.

[NicoNZ]

10 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

A correction to start with, if you've had the airbox off then you will also have disconnected the ambient temp sensor mounted to the airbox as well. Wont be that unless the plug is trapped somewhere shorted out I guess.

Have you thought about the ignition switch? They have a habit of creating strange issues and a disassemble and clean usually fixes them.

Ciao 

Yes correct and this was reattached to the air box :-). I have now sprayed contact cleaner down into the ignition switch and as it dripped out the bottom while I was switching back and forth I assume I have managed to give the contacts some type of clean. It works nice and free with no change thus far.

[docc]

10 minutes ago, NicoNZ said:

Yes a strange one. No the Gearbox ground was not removed. Checked the terminals this morning and have three connections for positive and two for the negative. Could not see any other wires missed but will pull the battery for a better look around this evening.

Perhaps someone with factory wiring on their 2003 can confirm the number of negative terminals?

I would have thought three: one for the Fuel/Ignition harness, one for the Lighting/Switching harness, and the big one to the back of the gearbox . . .

[Lucky Phil]

7 minutes ago, docc said:

Perhaps someone with factory wiring on their 2003 can confirm the number of negative terminals?

I would have thought three: one for the Fuel/Ignition harness, one for the Lighting/Switching harness, and the big one to the back of the gearbox . . .

On a 2004 cat convert model 3/4

Greenie

 

 

Ciao

[docc]

I wish that made sense to me. Pretty sure there was more than one or two negative terminals on my RedFrame.  I know the later wiring is different.

[edit: two plus the main ground=3 on the RedFrame Sport.]

 

[Chuck]

14 minutes ago, docc said:

I wish that made sense to me. Pretty sure there was more than one or two negative terminals on my RedFrame.  I know the later wiring is different.

 

There are three on the Mighty Scura..

[Lucky Phil]

I dont know if this counts but have you got the fuel sender and electrical fuel tap connectors around the wrong way? I THINK you might be able to connect them to the wrong things as the connectors are the same.

Ciao

[NicoNZ]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

I dont know if this counts but have you got the fuel sender and electrical fuel tap connectors around the wrong way? I THINK you might be able to connect them to the wrong things as the connectors are the same.

Ciao

No they are different on my bike Phil

[Lucky Phil]

20 minutes ago, NicoNZ said:

No they are different on my bike Phil

Ok It was just a left field thing and upon reflection probably wouldn't have an impact anyway. I think on the early models its the same style plug as i recall someone asking about it after a manual tap conversion. That and when I did the daytona engine conversion I thought I'd get rid of the fuel tap connector and cut off the level plug,doh, and had a wiring repair to do. Docc will know or Kiwi Roy.

I still think the ignition switch might need to come apart. You didn't wash it before the maintenance did you or the last ride wasn't in the rain?

Ciao