Fork Compression and Rebound manual typo?

[footgoose]

to your original point.... the rider manual is not the best. I didn't get the correct one from new. Instructions can be vague or incomplete.

  

[andy york]

35 mm of sag is more of a "common" number people try to achieve. It doesn't just happen. It will depend on what springs you have....what fork oil 

you are running....and fork settings.  They are different for everyone. If Docc has his sport set to 35mm of sag and I get on his bike, sag will be

about 70mm.Docc is about 170 soaking wet and I am about 230 dry (pounds).Anyone who has ridden my bike says it seems harsh and stiff.

Probably is for them but its really good to me.

So ....were you able to turn the middle section? if yes, how many turns did it go. And if it was 3-4 turns then that may mean that is your C adjustment.

Which also means you might have to take the top cap off to put in a shorter spacer per some commit I made earlier.

Maybe Roper will chime in later as to what forks you might have. I'm betting they are Marz just a different model. and we will figure out what to do.

if you do pull a top cap off be sure the weight is off the front.

thats all I have for now

[jtucker]

Interestingly, this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-2004-Moto-Guzzi-V11-Ballabio-Complete-Front-Fork-GU01490280/362402336724?epid=13021999341&hash=item5460dccfd4:g:M5QAAOSwyglbYOlK

Shows the same... both forks are marked "R" only:

Not sure that really solves anything, but... 🤷‍♂️

__Jason

[andy york]

it may not solve the issue but to me it puts more cred on the fact that the smaller hex nut is for compression.

and if that is the case you will have to take off the top cap to adjust your sag.

some forks you can "feel" the detents as you turn the rebound screw. I would think that there are no more than 15 on the Marz.

There maybe detents on the compression.make a mark with a sharpie, put a box end wrench on the smaller nut and see how many turns.

If you ever get to the point of pulling the forks out, upon reassembly, be sure to index the forks to the same orientation so your markings make sense.

like put the R on "top"

[HantsV11LeMans]

1 hour ago, jtucker said:

Interestingly, this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-2004-Moto-Guzzi-V11-Ballabio-Complete-Front-Fork-GU01490280/362402336724?epid=13021999341&hash=item5460dccfd4:g:M5QAAOSwyglbYOlK

Shows the same... both forks are marked "R" only:

Not sure that really solves anything, but... 🤷‍♂️

__Jason

Thanks,

They look like mine (at least at the top)

it’s dark now in the UK so I’ll compare the rest in the light. It’s going to my local mechanic Thursday for a new fuel filter, I’ll show him all of this helpful detective work. 
We’ll count click on detents and revolutions on the smaller hex nut. He may change the standard sae 10 fork oil to sae 5 to see if that helps with sag if there is no adjustment aside from spacers. 
thanks to you all, really. 
I’ll keep checking for info and advice. I’ll update Thursday too. Maybe I should just wear a heavy backpack to beef myself up. 

[Lucky Phil]

25 minutes ago, HantsV11LeMans said:

Thanks,

They look like mine (at least at the top)

it’s dark now in the UK so I’ll compare the rest in the light. It’s going to my local mechanic Thursday for a new fuel filter, I’ll show him all of this helpful detective work. 
We’ll count click on detents and revolutions on the smaller hex nut. He may change the standard sae 10 fork oil to sae 5 to see if that helps with sag if there is no adjustment aside from spacers. 
thanks to you all, really. 
I’ll keep checking for info and advice. I’ll update Thursday too. Maybe I should just wear a heavy backpack to beef myself up. 

When in doubt look at the shop manual. Looks like you have an earlier owners manual. The transition of components for Guzzi isn't a hard line and so neither will be the owners manuals.

Ciao

 

 

[footgoose]

Yes, you have an early riders manual. I checked my stash of stuff and found this one.

[HantsV11LeMans]

1 hour ago, footgoose said:

Yes, you have an early riders manual. I checked my stash of stuff and found this one.

Thanks, my manual doesn’t mention the Corsa model on the cover. Must be an older manual. 
The preload is backed all the way out counter clockwise yet the front end only sags 7mm when I sit on it in gear. I’m hoping a lighter fork oil may help. My Old Manual (but now that may be wrong) says sae 10. Does the new manual say 10 for the Le Mans (non Corsa/ohlins)?

Has anyone tried sae 5 or 7?

Thanks

 

[docc]

You are right to be looking for more sag. I would suspect that either the springs or internal spacers may have been changed before.

As to oil, I recall the prevailing opinion that "10 wt" is rather thick for these forks, slowing their already limited action. I have long used BelRay 5 wt, yet also learned that measure can vary rather widely between manufacturers.  Peter Verdone Designs publishes a chart converting common fork oils to a more comparable centiStokes @ (some) temperature.

What does your rear sag measure?

[Lucky Phil]

34 minutes ago, HantsV11LeMans said:

Thanks, my manual doesn’t mention the Corsa model on the cover. Must be an older manual. 
The preload is backed all the way out counter clockwise yet the front end only sags 7mm when I sit on it in gear. I’m hoping a lighter fork oil may help. My Old Manual (but now that may be wrong) says sae 10. Does the new manual say 10 for the Le Mans (non Corsa/ohlins)?

Has anyone tried sae 5 or 7?

Thanks

 

Fork oil weight has no effect on sag. Fork oil level possibly can depending on how overfilled it is. I'd check the level first.

Ciao 

[footgoose]

2 hours ago, HantsV11LeMans said:

Does the new manual say 10 for the Le Mans (non Corsa/ohlins)?

will check and get back

[jtucker]

The (updated) manual page that was posted seems to say that there is no compression damping adjustment - only rebound damping and spring preload. If that's the case, then it seems changing oil viscosity is about the only way to adjust compression damping (which would, in turn, also affect rebound damping).

I hate to say it, but if you want to really be able to fine-tune, you might want to consider an improved cartridge, such as:

https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-misano-evo-adjustable-hydraulic-cartridge-for-moto-guzzi-v11-mans-20012006-p-43777.html

__Jason

[LowRyter]

Before doing any major work or installing a valve or cartridge kit, why not set the sag and play with the adjusters?  Perhaps you might set the adjusters independently as well as tandem?  Get a feel for it and see how it works.  Chances are you'll find an acceptable setting.

[GuzziMoto]

Some front forks have rebound adjustment at the top and compression adjustment at the bottom. The Italian Marzocchi's are a little unusual in that they often have rebound in one leg and compression in the other. My old Buell X1 had Showa forks like that, as I recall.

The older Marzocchi forks on the wifes V11 had the rebound in one leg and compression in the other, but the compression adjustment was worthless from the factory. If you took the forks apart you could see that the compression bypass valve (the adjuster) was only doing anything in like the last 1/4 of the travel. Until then the fork oil was free to avoid the valve stack or adjuster by flowing through ports in the side of the cartridge. But I was able to block off one of the two ports in the side of the cartridge and that forced fork oil to go through the valve stack and / or adjuster. Way better control of compression.

To figure this out, I took the forks apart, removed the springs, and with oil still in them I cycled the suspension through its stroke. You could feel how freely the suspension moved until it got to that last 1/4 of travel. Then suddenly the valving and adjuster came into play. It was like having a hydraulic adjustable bumpstop. Mind you, this was with the older silver forks. I don't know how the internals are in the newer forks. But they are just forks, there is no magic there.

[footgoose]

19 hours ago, HantsV11LeMans said:

Thanks, my manual doesn’t mention the Corsa model on the cover. Must be an older manual. 
The preload is backed all the way out counter clockwise yet the front end only sags 7mm when I sit on it in gear. I’m hoping a lighter fork oil may help. My Old Manual (but now that may be wrong) says sae 10. Does the new manual say 10 for the Le Mans (non Corsa/ohlins)?

Has anyone tried sae 5 or 7?

Thanks

 

yes that riders manual says 10