Navigation - What do you use?

[docc]

The Speedhut are awesome! Had them 20,000 miles, so a couple more years to see if they will outlast a Veglia (less than 30,000 each on those).

Interestingly, the matter of Navigation has much to do with speed, distance, and time. The accuracy of the Veglia speedometer and odometer was always in question while the Speedhut is dead-on. I also "upgraded" my cockpit analog timepiece to an "expensive" $30 waterproof Timex. Very visible and reliable. (I looked at the Formotion products for years, but they are just too big for that space once in their mount).

[Chuck]

My sweetie got me a Formotion clock for Christmas. It's been too cold in the Guzzi Garage (tm) to even think about installing it, but it *will* go on. One way or another..

That Timex looks nice, Docc. I installed something similar on MZ I have in California.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Chuck
bad hand missed a letter :)

[LowRyter]

My Ducati has one of those fancy LCD dashboards.  Time and Temp at the ready, along with coolant temp, odo, miles remaining, hours ridden, lap timers (have no idea), speedo recalibration, etc.. etc..

The owner's book is about 300 pages, 200 are for operation of the dashboard.  Things like "chain adjustment"  mentioned are take it to the dealer.  Seriously.

Actually maintenance has been pretty easy, so long as it's routine and I have the right tools, rear stand, unique Ducati tools and the like.  No, I won't tackle the 18k desmo check/adjust.  

[Gmc28]

My Ducati has one of those fancy LCD dashboards.  Time and Temp at the ready, along with coolant temp, odo, miles remaining, hours ridden, lap timers (have no idea), speedo recalibration, etc.. etc..
The owner's book is about 300 pages, 200 are for operation of the dashboard.  Things like "chain adjustment"  mentioned are take it to the dealer.  Seriously.
Actually maintenance has been pretty easy, so long as it's routine and I have the right tools, rear stand, unique Ducati tools and the like.  No, I won't tackle the 18k desmo check/adjust.  

Touché.
U have a water cooled, 8v duc motor? I did my own personal cost/benefit analysis of that valve job, and the “take it to the duc dealer” option handily won, despite the fact that I still do the duc valves on my air cooled models.
And I gave up on my duc LCD display long ago. I figured it’s not a feature I care about enough to fight with anymore.

But back to Docc’s nav topic....
I’m a map geek, and know that’s not a unique thing. But my recollection of the “good ‘ol days” of map usage needs to include the copious amounts of cursing I did when realizing I’d gone the wrong way.
I’ve messed with a score of impressive electronic/gps map app options, and dove deep into a few, but in the end for my on-road nav I’ve learned to deal with the vagueries of google maps to good effect, and for myself deciding that it was a shorter learning curve, and more importantly was a learning curve that doesn’t need to be repeated nearly as much to stay competent. I was always needing to re-learn the powerful but complicated options on the best map apps.
Building routes is simple in google, it’s on every smart phone and computer, and importantly it’s easy to link my iPhone to drop a route onto an old iPad mini I will use for long trips, due to eyes getting older and needing that bigger screen. And the “pinch” zooming is so simple, along with option to work online or offline.
Mostly I just use the blue-dot-on-a-map view option, which is more akin to a paper map but with the “you are here” built in, but occasionally use the turn-by-turn guidance in larger, complicated settings in foreign cities. Was super handy in Japan and Italy in the big cities.
I use other apps for off-road.

[LowRyter]

GM- My local wrench that did my Greenie gearbox was the head mechanic at the old Duc store here.  I talked to him before I purchased my Duc and he gave me some reasonable labor hours for the desmo service.  Of course I did not consider timing belts and computer flash.  I have a couple thousand miles to stew on it. 

Hell, getting a rear sprocket is turning into a European scavenger hunt.  Really.

Having said that, the bike's been totally reliable, easy to work on and the best ride ever.  I'll just have to take 18k mile blue pill and hope that Don treats me right.

You guys will know in a few months whether I'm singing or cussing.  You know I won't hold back.

[docc]

In 2007-08, the "revolutionary" Garmin zūmo 550 took up Navigational duties on my Sport and soldiered on until just last year . . .

The tankbag window was relegated to Wiring Diagrams and Electrical Flow Charts. (While the BMW and KTM guys laughed it up in the background) . . .

[Gmc28]

The “always on” element of the zumo I like.  I have it on my bike in Alaska where I almost never need to figure out which road to take, as there are so few, but it provides that nice situational awareness at a glance. 

[docc]

8 minutes ago, Gmc28 said:

The “always on” element of the zumo I like.  I have it on my bike in Alaska where I almost never need to figure out which road to take, as there are so few, but it provides that nice situational awareness at a glance. 

Wow. That. 

[Gmc28]

10 hours ago, docc said:

Wow. That. 

Well, the mind can wander.  Perhaps that’s even the goal sometimes? :->

last fall was cruising down through Lava Beds National Monument in southern Oregon/NorCal, on a beautiful morning. Between covid, the season, the day of the week, and whatever else there was literally not a single other vehicle on the road, the sun was out, and the scenery was great.  Just had to make one right turn in the next hour... an obvious Y in the road, per the map.  Happily just taking it all in, i glance down at one point at the moving map, and the little blue dot is showing I’m past the Y and down the wrong fork.  How’s that possible... i didn’t pass any “Y” of any kind, just the occasional dirt ATV path here and there. Hmm.  Looking ahead on the track I’m now on looks like it would be a large deviation from the days time-plan, so i u-turn, and back a few miles is my road, labelled a US “route”, and looking on the map like the same caliber of other paved road “US routes” that I’ve been on, but which was actually a 2-track/single lane dirt road straight from mad max, very deep in silt, and with no markings of any kind. One of the rare cases where an ADV bike actually came in handy, and where it would have been a different outcome had i been on my beloved V11.  Anyway, not that cursing is always an all bad thing (maybe its good for us? 😉), but i would have cursed a lot more that day without the quick situational awareness from my blue dot...

[Cabernet]

@docc, thank you for the kind appraisal.

[docc]

37 minutes ago, Cabernet said:

@docc, thank you for the kind appraisal.

I found the points you made about navigation, and Sat-Nav in particular, poignantly on the mark. I would like to quote some of your remarks in this thread to carry on the discussion in this more general "Navigation" thread. I did not want to lead your more specific BeeLine thread too far off topic.

[80CX100]

19 hours ago, docc said:

Wow. That. 

19 hours ago, Gmc28 said: situational awareness at a glance.

    Yup, back in the day, I've done a lot of wilderness travelling, so I'm very comfortable with topographical maps or google map print outs, I have a natural mistrust of anything digital so have never jumped into the GPS game; but there have been many times on a back country ride that I really missed the "situational awareness" you're describing.

     Many times I'm not lost, but I really don't know where I am, I take a bearing from the sun and head in the general right direction, it works for me.

    One ride in particular, it was a cloudy overcast day with no sun and a thunderstorm was blowing in hard, I made the first mistake of not stopping and verifying my exact location on the map, and went with my gut feeling that if I made a couple of right hand turns, I'd be headed east in the general direction of home; but with no sun to give me a bearing, I didn't realize that I had ridden around and come out on the opposite side of a mountain; I caught my mistake about 100 miles from home, ended up riding though the eye of a very nasty storm with lightening strikes all around me; a GPS would've been nice to have

     

[docc]

On 1/22/2021 at 2:51 PM, docc said:

I found the points you made about navigation, and Sat-Nav in particular, poignantly on the mark. I would like to quote some of your remarks in this thread to carry on the discussion in this more general "Navigation" thread. I did not want to lead your more specific BeeLine thread too far off topic.

There is this concept @Cabernet brought up:

"I always found that once I found an address by maps, I wouldn’t need the map again. Go by Sat-nav and I would need to use the Sat-nav next time too (just as I can never remember a route someone else has led) . . ."

Along with:

"They put on a very good tour, but they didn’t just tell the Sat-Nav the destination and follow it."

Taking this a step further, I have been involved in some navigation-intensive riding with other riders depending on my effectiveness that I kinda missed out on some of the riding experience. With my current Garmin replacement (595LM), I'm trying to limit its prompts and alerts in order to better focus on the ride. After having the Zūmo in the Sport's cockpit for more than ten years, I leave it off now most of the time. With the Speedhut's reliability, I seem more connected with the Sport without the SatNav.

Again, Cabernet, from the BeeLine thread:

"Having ridden out from Manchester for closing on 20 years and establish multiple routes to any point on the compass, my routes tend to avoid towns have few road changes and be on B-roads. But after said 20 years of Sunday ride-outs, even this variety of destinations spanning from Builth Wells to Skegness to Kielder water gets repetitive. However I know there are a multitude of good minor roads to explore in between, they are just awkward to navigate between. Hence considering a dreaded Sat-Nav."

So, I am anxious to keep learning what others do for navigation

 

[footgoose]

 

Just think me old and in my ways, and not incredulous to available technology or ones use of it. Keep in mind, I don't lead rider groups but DO yield to the ones who do, and their judgement and generous sense of responsibility.

While you may have intended this as a tech device query, it jumps out at me as a philosophical question. Sorry I can't help with devices, but on a motorcycle I don't use anything electronic. I look at a map and head the direction Of intent. I might get lost? ?... Don't threaten me with a good time. I am precisely where I intend to be. Wandering. I might find a treasure of a town, my next good meal or a new friend, or the answer to what I've always wondered about. To each his own but we all jump on the bike for different reasons. For me it's discovery.

To be honest, the only occasions I have been "misdirected" I was following group tour leaders using GPS devises. Always simple software map mistakes, always easy to correct, and always comical. We always had a stop and a laugh. But still... the fault of devise "confusion", be it old software or changing sat reference.

An aside... Once my young nephew, on a trip with friends, found himself in a very small Ohio town gas station with a worn through rear tire. His buddies had to leave him there to deal with it. He phoned me to please come get him with a trailer. I said no. A 5 to 6 hour round trip for me. Not for a tire. Take a deep breath and look around you. This is your adventure, live it. I googled a nearby B&B for him and he walked to it, had a good dinner, met some kind people, spent the night and was referred to a local lawnmower/powersport repair shop that had a tire and installed it the next day. Most of you here wouldn't need this advise, but he did. And he was better off for it.

My point is, think back to what you did before GPS. Use what you did then. Your wits, a paper map, the sun, and the offerings of strangers. It was easy. Ok... look at the blue dot when you need to. The greatest pleasures are the simplest.

 

[Gmc28]

Well said .... good tech plus philosophy talk :->

I favor the idea of being able to not worry about the maps and gadgetry, but even as i try and slow down a bit and “smell the roses”, life is still too full of all the things that make my goofy world go round, to where losing a day or half day to a wrong turn, even if it involves some discovery, might be a hassle I’d rather avoid under the circumstances.  Recognizing that later in life presumably things will change and more time will be available.  For instance,  I might have 2 days to get somewhere for a pop-up opportunity ... 3 would be best given the distance, whereas 1 day would mean grinding straight through, and of course I have the option to just park the bike and fly there.  So if reasonably planned, i can make a 2 day window a good, if not ideal, chance to get out on the machine.  I’ll take that 2 day run, but pretty much need to utilize reasonable nav tools to assure its not a “gilligans island 3 hour tour...”

When i do have time to plan a trip, i mentioned my fondness of the nearly ubiquitous Google maps option.  Mostly the maps can be downloaded for offline use (some areas don’t allow it, like japan, which seems odd to me), and route building is so easy, on the laptop, iPhone, or iPad. Then i email the routes to myself, so they are there in an email inbox folder, or I might save the hyperlinks for the route on a cloud folder, again so they are easily accessed at about any time, except when off-line.  If i know I’ll be off-line a lot (Alaska, etc), I’ll make the extra effort to convert the tracks into .GPX tracks, so i can import them into whichever app I’m using that year, like MotionX (apple) or Locus Pro (android), etc.  converting to GPX has been the worst part of google maps, as the option to do so keeps shifting, from hard, to easy, to nearly impossible, and so on, based on that years developments.  Key there though is that it’s usually less about the specific route and more about just having the downloaded map and blue-dot location.  Pretty much just the higher-resolution and “self finding” version of a paper road map. Still provides that mental element that lets you get to know the area you’re traveling in, but with less hassle. 

each winter i still mess with some of the latest options, keeping an old android phone operational (no sim chip) for LocusPro, Osmand, and of course google maps.  And i keep my daily iphone up to speed with MotionX and some others (more recently have gone back to Avenza and Pocket Earth again), just to see what cool new developments may look desirable (vs just being more layers of hassle).  And then i keep an old iPad mini (model 2?) just barely alive so it can display the map i want while actually traveling.  Can airdrop a route from the iphone, or use wifi to upload a map or route, and it provides for good visibility and "pinch" zoom, in a format thats big enough for my eyeballs.

had a monstrous GPS that came already mounted on my used Duc Multi enduro a few years ago.  i think it's meant for a boat... seriously.  was sort of cool, but again, the interface (software) is so clunky.  You've got a weather-proof moving map in front of you, but god knows what the hell you're looking at, as the database's that were supported were not at all friendly for eyes that want to glance down for guidance but not stare at a complicated map for long periods.  that issue i find to be fairly common with map apps, where they may have the good data, but displayed in a way that you have to stop and stare at it too much to figure out what you're looking at.... too much staring, not enough riding.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Gmc28