Emergency on long trip: any advice on bike randomly shutting down?

[footgoose]

there's a topic on this somewhere discussing alternative to oem sensors

[docc]

@jetboy, the O-ring is a standard #112. Viton should be available at a quality parts store.

[Kiwi_Roy]

As Tomchi said, here's the schematic, the sensor has a short cable plugged in under the tank somewhere, measure between 1 & 2.

Note also how the petcock fuse is right on the critical path battery to ECU relay, if you hot wire to fuse 8 it will also energize the ECU relay, the ECU will energize the injection relay.

Actually that's a good point, does the fuel pump run when you turn the key On, if not it's something missing in the main interlock circuit. The pump will still run even if the Phase sensor has failed but only for a couple of seconds, if the pumps not running for the initial 2 seconds chinches are the Phase sensor is OK.  (its a while since I looked at an old guzzi wiring LOL)

When you turn the key On the pump runs independent of the sensor but only for a couple of seconds. When you crank the motor the sensor lets the ECU know and it turns the pump back On

Actually for the starter to work, ignition switch, Sidestand relay and kill switch all have to be closed, that feeds the Start button.

[jetboy]

Fuel pump turns on and pumps fuel.  Used that to clean the lines of the possibly bad fuel!   

 

Sadly i am sending this from the side of the road.   Ran beautifully for about 2 miles then just stopped.  And back to doing the weird rev cycle.  Still waiting on pick up.  Should be here in about 30 min

[Kiwi_Roy]

23 minutes ago, jetboy said:

Fuel pump turns on and pumps fuel.  Used that to clean the lines of the possibly bad fuel!   

 

Sadly i am sending this from the side of the road.   Ran beautifully for about 2 miles then just stopped.  And back to doing the weird rev cycle.  Still waiting on pick up.  Should be here in about 30 min

So the fuel pump is running but just for a couple of seconds?

Is it still running while cranking over, if not it's probably the Phase sensor.

The phase sensor turns on the injection relay through the ECU, the injection relay turns on the pump and the ignition coils, if the Phase sensor dies you lose the injection relay, pump, spark & injectors. You could make sure no-ones added extra spacers to the sensor, sometimes that gets done in an attempt to make it oil tight. The gap should be 0.6 - 1.2mm.

Probably your best bet to find another sensor is to borrow one from a local Guzzi owner.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Are you also posting on Wild Guzzi that would improve your chances, all the Guzzis back then used the same sensor

If not a member on there somehow send your cell No so we can link you up.

[docc]

2 hours ago, Kiwi_Roy said:

As Tomchi said, here's the schematic, the sensor has a short cable plugged in under the tank somewhere, measure between 1 & 2.

Note also how the petcock fuse is right on the critical path battery to ECU relay, if you hot wire to fuse 8 it will also energize the ECU relay, the ECU will energize the injection relay.

Actually that's a good point, does the fuel pump run when you turn the key On, if not it's something missing in the main interlock circuit. The pump will still run even if the Phase sensor has failed but only for a couple of seconds, if the pumps not running for the initial 2 seconds chinches are the Phase sensor is OK.  (its a while since I looked at an old guzzi wiring LOL)

When you turn the key On the pump runs independent of the sensor but only for a couple of seconds. When you crank the motor the sensor lets the ECU know and it turns the pump back On

Actually for the starter to work, ignition switch, Sidestand relay and kill switch all have to be closed, that feeds the Start button.

Phase Sensor plugs into the harness under the tank on the left side, beside the front of the spine frame: white and orange wires. (The location shown is after "grooming." Your connector could be anywhere in that vicinity) . . .

Phase/timing sensor, itself, is seen at the very bottom, right of this image             ^^

[footgoose]

3 hours ago, jetboy said:

Fuel pump turns on and pumps fuel.  Used that to clean the lines of the possibly bad fuel!   

 

Sadly i am sending this from the side of the road.   Ran beautifully for about 2 miles then just stopped.  And back to doing the weird rev cycle.  Still waiting on pick up.  Should be here in about 30 min

Just something to put into your bag of possibilities. Looking back over this it seems that you get it going... and then it stops. I'm reminded of a very strange and - tough to find - problem I had a while back. Though my problem was blowing fuses, it was directly related to forward motion. Turned out the side stand safety switch wire blew up against the head pipe and melted, causing the fuse to blow. Then It dropped away and was good with a new fuse until I got up to speed and it shorted again. Took me a week to find it.

Reading about your damaged sensor wires made me recall my problem and wonder. The same scenario may apply to a fueling problem if you have a filter that's coming apart and under increased flow is sending bits of crap down the line.

On a side note if I may, you have a great attitude to this dilemma. It will serve you well getting to the bottom of the problem. I for one, likely wouldn't have reacted in quite the same positive way. 

[Chuck]

Quote

On a side note if I may, you have a great attitude to this dilemma. It will serve you well getting to the bottom of the problem. I for one, likely wouldn't have reacted in quite the same positive way. I for one, likely wouldn't have reacted in quite the same positive way. 

The thing about machinery is it won't give you grief on purpose, unlike (ahem) some people. Patience and Perseverance *will* get to the bottom of it. 

[jetboy]

heh.  i have gone through the cycles of not super happy about it.  but I don't blame the bike-  mostly me for not properly maintaining it.  

So its now in oregon in the back of my brothers old truck-  which luckily DID make the trip.  reason I was traveling up is my mother and brother finally got vaxed - first time I have seen them in 1.5 years.  

I just booked a flight back to SF as i have to get back to pick up my daughter by tuesday-  I ordered a new sensor from MGcycle and the bike will stay here until I come up later in July.  I may work on it a bit today but also may just take the day to enjoy -  my childhood friend is coming down to meet up etc.  

 

anyway, bike trouble aside its a good trip - and at this point coming out of the pandemic--- any experience that is not me sitting at home in front of a computer is actually a good one... even if its pushing a Guzzi down a freeway.  at least I know I am alive!  

[jetboy]

ordered new fuel pump, filter, and manual petcock from MGcycle.. so gonna do all that as well.  probably time even if they are working to get those sorted.  I can keep the old ones as emergency spares if they check out ok.  

 

 

[Pressureangle]

My 1100Sporti had a bad phase sensor when I bought it, which took a minute to sort out. I had precisely the same symptoms, that is it ran great just about far enough to be a real pain walking back then quit. At first it was intermittent loss of power, intake spitting, then quitting and restarting after a short cool-off. It got worse until eventually I was afraid to leave the garage with it. Eventually it became obvious that the problem presented with heat, and some forum investigation led me to pull the sensor and ohm it cold and hot- sure enough, a heat gun made the sensor open right about the temperature I measured at the engine case (don't recall that number at the mo) So you can be certain with the tried-and-true 1960's British Coil Hot Check. Hair dryer, IR temp gun, and ohm meter.

[Chuck]

^^^^^Like I said, I have a dollar riding on it. I had to let the moths out of my billfold to make sure I had one.. (Guzzi content)

[MartyNZ]

There's a good discussion on setting the sensor clearance here:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21021-guzzisti-friendship/#elControls_240669_menu

 

[jetboy]

well she is tarped up and behind my mother's shed - be back up in a couple weeks and the parts should be in and I can take it on.  the issue was this time-  I was coming up to work on our  family friends old cabin so instead of working on the bike, I was battling rat turds and piss after 10 years of neglect- 4 days straight of just cleaning shit.    I made one heck of a burn pile for when winter comes.  

next gonna put in a septic tank, LED lights, (got the generator) need to get a new regulator for the propane- stove and refrigerator don't work- both rat infested so probably just need replaced.  , need to get a pump for the creek to get water.   the Roof - shingles from 1971 was growing ferns and small trees.  so ... got to do that.  outhouse has fallen over, lots of rotten logs and slugs inside-  

 

makes the guzzi issues seem less serious.