Emergency on long trip: any advice on bike randomly shutting down?

[motortouring]

Hi Jetboy,

It is quite a discussion already and I didn't read everything. Your symptoms remind me of a trip with a friend that has his 2001 V11 LM serviced "somewhere". Now I suspect that changing the fuel filter is not always part of the service (to keep things in the middle). So he rides with a too old fuelfilter.

This bike has the filter in front(upstream) of the pump and that causes cavitation if the filter is restricting too much.

His bike stalled and we tried a lot. Changing relais was a reflex (I always carry 6 with me😳) . No effect. We Che keep the sparks. We took the fuelline of the pressure valve in the return line to see if there was fuel. It did flow after a little hick-up. I am not sure how it should be and if the hick-up is normal, but we refitted the fuelline and the bike started and the engine ran fine again.

I do think the filter was part of the reason that the pump did not build up enough pressure. But in fact, this "repair" is a bit of a mystery to me.  So maybe one of the experts over here sees some logic.

[jetboy]

thanks!  The parts arrived about an hour after I had to fly out-    But I purchased fuel related parts as well as electronic- can't hurt to change out both.  will have to wait till i get back up.  

got home and fired up the moto morini for the first time in a while...    

[jetboy]

5 hours ago, motortouring said:

Hi Jetboy,

It is quite a discussion already and I didn't read everything. Your symptoms remind me of a trip with a friend that has his 2001 V11 LM serviced "somewhere". Now I suspect that changing the fuel filter is not always part of the service (to keep things in the middle). So he rides with a too old fuelfilter.

This bike has the filter in front(upstream) of the pump and that causes cavitation if the filter is restricting too much.

His bike stalled and we tried a lot. Changing relais was a reflex (I always carry 6 with me😳) . No effect. We Che keep the sparks. We took the fuelline of the pressure valve in the return line to see if there was fuel. It did flow after a little hick-up. I am not sure how it should be and if the hick-up is normal, but we refitted the fuelline and the bike started and the engine ran fine again.

I do think the filter was part of the reason that the pump did not build up enough pressure. But in fact, this "repair" is a bit of a mystery to me.  So maybe one of the experts over here sees some logic.

PS:  Lemans III  -    I have some envy I will not lie.  

[footgoose]

no wasted money in any of the things you're doing

[jetboy]

Hey!  Finally got back up and replaced all the parts.  Except the fuel filter which seems to need threaded niples/connectors whereas mine was a single unit with built in niples.  Fuel seemed to flow so re-used it.  Started up and rode off and all seemed fine!   New sensor

 

But -  new issue.  Or maybe version of old issue.  Seems to be running rich.  Got one backfire.   And under high load it bogged down after it got warm.  I thought maybe with my fiddling id bound up the enrichment circuit cable but its clear and functioning-  seems to be closing.  Started it after sitting a few minutes and it smelled much to rich.    Any other thoughts?  Maybe the load sensor on the right side throttle body? 

 

Cheers

 

Josh

[docc]

2 hours ago, jetboy said:

Hey!  Finally got back up and replaced all the parts.  Except the fuel filter which seems to need threaded niples/connectors whereas mine was a single unit with built in niples.  Fuel seemed to flow so re-used it.  Started up and rode off and all seemed fine!   New sensor

 

But -  new issue.  Or maybe version of old issue.  Seems to be running rich.  Got one backfire.   And under high load it bogged down after it got warm.  I thought maybe with my fiddling id bound up the enrichment circuit cable but its clear and functioning-  seems to be closing.  Started it after sitting a few minutes and it smelled much to rich.    Any other thoughts?  Maybe the load sensor on the right side throttle body? 

 

Cheers

 

Josh

Glad to hear you are back up and running, Josh! Just to clarify "New Sensor" . . . cam/ phase/ timing sensor?

Time to perform a "Decent Tune-up" before proceeding with throwing parts at it . . .

 

[jetboy]

yeah, that is truly in the cards at this point.  Yes, new phase sensor, fuel pump, petcock(manual) -  I thought the fuel filter would be the no brainer change but maybe because mine is a 2000 or I just ordered wrong.  (or it has been retrofitted at some point).  

problem is I am ia tiny town of only ~200 people so its not like a thing I can just go grab.     But gas poured out of it. both ways, seeminly with no problem or resistance.  

 

One question:  The fuel return line has a tiny vacuum nipple to activate it and I just have it open... hmmm.  where does that vacuum line go?  could that be the issue?  

 

[Lucky Phil]

24 minutes ago, jetboy said:

yeah, that is truly in the cards at this point.  Yes, new phase sensor, fuel pump, petcock(manual) -  I thought the fuel filter would be the no brainer change but maybe because mine is a 2000 or I just ordered wrong.  (or it has been retrofitted at some point).  

problem is I am ia tiny town of only ~200 people so its not like a thing I can just go grab.     But gas poured out of it. both ways, seeminly with no problem or resistance.  

 

One question:  The fuel return line has a tiny vacuum nipple to activate it and I just have it open... hmmm.  where does that vacuum line go?  could that be the issue?  

 

The port to nowhere is what it is. It just senses atmospheric. Used to sense intake port pressure in other applications in the early days on Ducati's for example.

If its running rich as hell all of a sudden then about the only thing that can cause that is a stuck fuel pressure reg. I've not personally seen one fail but if you leave them to dry out they do tend to stick closed. You can hear the pump load up and suddenly there's a pop as it unsticks off it seat.

I bought 2 phase sensors about 18 months ago for 10usd each from China. Seems to work fine and indistinguishable from factory model. If you look at aftermarket suppliers in the automotive world that sell thousands of these for cars which they have commonality they generally charge around $50 or so for them and I can guarantee they will be Chinese versions as well. I put the info on here at the time. 

Ciao

 

[jetboy]

thanks!  i found the issue:  Me being a dummie. (i'd say something else but keeping it family friendly) 

 

When I put it all back together i forgot to tighten down the return fuel line properly.    thus the "smelling rich" was fuel leaking!  ahhh!   well, fixed that and seems to be back running like a champion.    I even took her adventure riding on some gravel and old rock roads... handled it pretty well --- if it had some knobbies on it could have ripped it up.  

[jetboy]

[docc]

How great to see this V11 out&about! Welldone, Sir!

@jetboy, would you post a summary of what stopped your bike the first time? And, perhaps, an addendum of what confused the issue on reassembly?

TIA!

[jetboy]

Summary:

Sudden and intermittent loss of throttle:  electricity still on, but all combustion seemingly cutting out.  

1. Did this months ago and I limped home, pausing to let it cool then going a short distance.  It started to "Huff" when given gas... revving to 4k and then falling off then up and falling again.   ruh... ruh.... ruh... ruh.

I changed the relays and it then seemed completely fixed.  (but it also got cooler and I was not riding far.. )

2.  I took it on its first extended ride and about 5 hours into the ride, as I came off the coast into the inland heat, it started to cut out again on the freeway.  first just once, then progressively getting worse until I limped into Eureka.   sounding and acting like it had months before.   After that it would maybe start, maybe not, and only run for 1/4 mile.. or less.  

I fiddled with a ton of stuff-  but nothing roadside would fix it.    at least all my connectors got a good greasing.    

Ended up replacing the Phase sensor:  A fairly generic sensor for the timing.  NOTE: after I did this it seemingly ran fine-  but I did not take it on a 200 mile ride to find out.   Since I was working on it, I also replaced the fuel pump and petcock with a manual version.  

Subsequently I went on a ride and it had some bogging down issues at throttle-  but turns out I was an idiot and did not tighten down the return fuel line.  that done-  all seems good!   But not done the 5 hour test yet!  that will be later in the summer or fall.  

 

thanks for all the help -