Oil Light Stays On

[p6x]

Would it make sense to test the oil pressure sensor which would only consist of applying pressure and using an ohmmeter, checking the resistance between zero pressure and work pressure applied?

Making the test jig is a small investment though, for just that one time.

[LowRyter]

It looks like the sensor was doing it's job since you have no oil pressure.  Once you change oil, install a new filter and start the engine, you'll know you have pressure if the light goes out.  If not, you have problems, most likely the oil pump.

In my Guzzi ownership I've had both problems of two different bikes: 1) loose filter, 2) bad pump.

[Scud]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:59 AM, Weegie said:

 

Next is to check the paper sump gaskets are good.

On my ex 2003 LeMans, the oil light was often on at idle and would go out at higher revs. Then I installed an aftermarket oil pressure gauge in the dash. It read low... which started my investigation.

When I hooked up my external oil pressure gauge, the readings were far below expectations at all rev levels. That's when I decided to drop the pan and found that the part marked "Gasket Area" above was missing. It had been like that since I bought the bike and I don't know how long before that. Even without that section of gasket, there was enough oil flow to supply the engine. However, when I put the new gasket in, the pressure jumped up to expectations. I don't recall all the details, but I had a whole topic on it. I think it was called "oil pressure vs oil flow."

There are also O-rings where the oil filter housing connects through the sump ring. You should see if those are damage or missing.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Scud
previously wrote "oil pump" but was actually trying to refer to the silver filter housing assembly as pictured above.

[Scud]

Here's a link to the pressure vs flow topic:

I just read it again... there are a lot of smart and helpful people on this forum.

[p6x]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:53 AM, LowRyter said:

It looks like the sensor was doing it's job since you have no oil pressure.  Once you change oil, install a new filter and start the engine, you'll know you have pressure if the light goes out.  If not, you have problems, most likely the oil pump.

In my Guzzi ownership I've had both problems of two different bikes: 1) loose filter, 2) bad pump.

What I can't really figure is why the low oil pressure light would not stay lit if the issue was a ruptured seal, or a malfunctioning trochoid pump.

If it was an o'ring failure, it could make sense. Some o'rings seal with pressure. But if they don't seal properly, the oil flow past them would wear them down, causing the permanent leak.

The flat gasket on the oil filter would keep leaking if it was not sealing properly.

But when cold, the oil viscosity is higher, so you would have a better sealing ability.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, Scud said:

Here's a link to the pressure vs flow topic:

I just read it again... there are a lot of smart and helpful people on this forum.

So you are riding your bike with that large dial attached to your rear-view mirror?

[Lucky Phil]

I would just change the switch. I've had switches fail to open on start and leave the light on and it wasn't on a Guzzi. My GSXR1000 track bike did it once. That was enough for me, I just changed out the switch and it was fixed.

Just for the sake of accuracy a v11 doesn't use a trochoidal pump. It uses a gear pump. 

Not saying there mightn't be a more serious issue but do I need to remind everyone of Occams Razor?

Ciao     

[p6x]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

I would just change the switch. I've had switches fail to open on start and leave the light on and it wasn't on a Guzzi. My GSXR1000 track bike did it once. That was enough for me, I just changed out the switch and it was fixed.

Just for the sake of accuracy a v11 doesn't use a trochoidal pump. It uses a gear pump. 

Not saying there mightn't be a more serious issue but do I need to remind everyone of Occams Razor?

Ciao     

Gear pumps are usually pretty solid... however, it is a bike with only 3000 miles on the meter? perhaps a manufacturing defect?

[Scud]

39 minutes ago, p6x said:

So you are riding your bike with that large dial attached to your rear-view mirror?

haha... no. I had a nice little oil pressure gauge and voltmeter made to match the Speedhut tach and speedo. But I was not sure about accuracy of the oil pressure gauge, so I temporarily strapped on the huge one and connected it to the block. Just rode a few miles like that for data collection.

 

[po18guy]

Oil pressure switches. Had a Toyota Tercel 4WD whose oil light would flicker, then say on. Rev the engine and it would go off, but steady RPMs, no matter how high, it would come back on. Torn diaphragm. Revving spikes the pressure and will break the internal ground, whereas steady RPM will allow the oil to flow past the diaphragm and the spring will make ground. Look for suspicious seepage or drips at the sending unit. "Dead" giveaway.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

Gear pumps are usually pretty solid... however, it is a bike with only 3000 miles on the meter? perhaps a manufacturing defect?

Honestly the last thing I would be looking at on a bike with that mileage would be the pump.

The usual suspects leaving out a mechanically damaged engine are.

the switch

The filter and gasket

A missing section of sump plate gasket on the oil module

a poorly seated oil pressure relief valve

A blocked oil pickup screen, maybe.

faulty wiring to the switch.

 

A V11 pump is pretty bullet proof. I know lowrider has an issue with his Cali? and the dealer mechanic changed a pump after a priming issue but I'd have loved to see the old pump. 

Ciao

[LowRyter]

4 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I would just change the switch. I've had switches fail to open on start and leave the light on and it wasn't on a Guzzi. My GSXR1000 track bike did it once. That was enough for me, I just changed out the switch and it was fixed.

Just for the sake of accuracy a v11 doesn't use a trochoidal pump. It uses a gear pump. 

Not saying there mightn't be a more serious issue but do I need to remind everyone of Occams Razor?

Ciao     

I guess I'm off track.  I thought he took off the switch, started the bike and no oil was pumping out?  <So he has no oil pressure>  Then change oil and install the filter and insure there are no leaks.  If that doesn't work it's likely the pump. 

 

If I got the wrong (and you have pressure), ignore everything I said.  (everyone here knows more than I do)

 

[Lucky Phil]

7 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I guess I'm off track.  I thought he took off the switch, started the bike and no oil was pumping out?  <So he has no oil pressure>  Then change oil and install the filter and insure there are no leaks.  If that doesn't work it's likely the pump. 

 

If I got the wrong (and you have pressure), ignore everything I said.  (everyone here knows more than I do)

 

Maybe not so much. I re-read nanochickens posts and I missed one. He said he removed the l/h valve cover and cranked twice for about 8 seconds with the plugs out and didn't see any oil flow. Hmm, not sure if this is A typical or not. Pete Roper might know from doing it before. It wouldn't totally surprise me if it took longer than this for the heads to get fed after starting let alone cranking. He did't mention if the Oil pressure light went out during this cranking with the plugs out. My Daytona engine puts the light out the second you hit the button well before the engine fires. Can't remember if the 2 valve engine was the same.

Ciao

[p6x]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Honestly the last thing I would be looking at on a bike with that mileage would be the pump.

The usual suspects leaving out a mechanically damaged engine are.

the switch

The filter and gasket

A missing section of sump plate gasket on the oil module

a poorly seated oil pressure relief valve

A blocked oil pickup screen, maybe.

faulty wiring to the switch.

 

A V11 pump is pretty bullet proof. I know lowrider has an issue with his Cali? and the dealer mechanic changed a pump after a priming issue but I'd have loved to see the old pump. 

Ciao

My thoughts exactly about the oil pump. I mean gear pumps are indestructible.

The only time when I had a failure of an oil pump, was on my Kawasaki S2, which caused the engine to seize. It was a trochoidal pump, but on a 2 stroke, the requirements are different.

[Weegie]

5 hours ago, LowRyter said:

(everyone here knows more than I do)

Heh @LowRyter I would not place any cash on that bet (thinking of myself before anybody takes the hump)

I can't say for sure as I don't own a V11 but if the filter has been filled with oil it still takes approx 10-15 seconds on my sport for the oil pressure to start coming up, a good bit longer if you don't.

Once pressure is established the oil pressure will register as soon as the bike cranks as @Lucky Phil has said, well it does on my Sporti and HiCam, both broadsump bikes.

I don't know but if you had leakage at the Gasket on the pump suction side, could that result in a failure of the pump self priming?

The oil pump is a possibility, but if it was me it would be the last thing I'd be looking at.

It sounded to me like a recurrent issue that's gradually got worse over time and from later posts I took it as the bike was not establishing oil pressure, from the checks completed.

The only thing I'd add as was already said (by LowRyter I think) would be checking the woodruff key on the oil pump sprocket, but that's a longshot and near the bottom of the list. Again I can't remember the 2 v/v set up but on the HiCam a taper on the shaft is the main mechanism binding the pump to the sprocket.

Unless I can think of anything else I'm about done here, OP has to check the sump and the internals to rule out the obvious first then move on from there