Oil Light Stays On

[LowRyter]

5 hours ago, docc said:

I really need to get-me some o' them. And a plan to replace my originals. Probably gonna have to have them milled off . . .

I think they're the same green gaskets I get from Harpers.  

[Lucky Phil]

33 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I think they're the same green gaskets I get from Harpers.  

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4634

Ciao

[docc]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4634

Ciao

Yah, those are not the factory green gaskets. These are the Valpolini?

[LowRyter]

More importantly, do those metal gaskets fit?  Specifically says Norge, last model Cali, Breva &  Griso (1100/1200)

[p6x]

18 hours ago, Nihontochicken said:

Since I've gotten this scooter, there have been no rocket launches or long rides up steep mountains, so, despite no Roper plate, I doubt there is damage resulting from oil shifting in the sump.  I just went by the local O'Reilly and picked up a Wix 51215 oil filter, fitting cap wrench, and strap wrench just in case to remove the apparent OEM unit.  If the currently installed filter gasket checks out okay, I'm thinking of bolting the pan back up, refilling the oil, pulling the pressure switch, and turning the engine over again just to be sure there is no oil pressure and the switch is operative before pulling the sump middle section to check the gaskets there.  Any yays or nays?  Note that as I advance in my "golden years", the following equation seems to hold true:

(Time left before check out)/(Desire to throw a wrench) = Constant  

I concur with Scud's advice.

Since you have already removed the sump lid, you may as well keep going and eliminate all the possible causes before re-assembling.

Rationale being, if the pressure sensor is not the root cause, then you need to disassemble again.

I would also go with the pressure gauge check as Scud offered. You may spend a little more for just the "one time", but at least you will get a full assessment of the pressure profile.

I made a video of my flat six engine oil pressure from start to warmer, thought I would post it to give an example and decided against as we all know how the oil pressure behaves in an engine

So you start at maximum pressure (cold oil), and the build up is about .5 of second from starting the engine cold. For my flat six, it is 5 bars (1 bar=14.503 psig).

As the oil temperature increases, the oil pressure diminishes. idling at 800 rpm.

At nominal oil temperature, the idle is about 1.2 bars, and above idle above 2 bars.

 

[Weegie]

I don't own a V11 so excuse my ignorance, but I've got a couple of points here one of which puzzle me.

@Scud said remove the oil pump how you can remove the pump with 4 bolts from the sump? I thought it lived in the timing chest and would take a lot more than 4 bolts. What am I missing?

Oil pressure will not be instantaneous if the sump has been drained and the engine turned over on the starter with the plugs removed, after a refill, it will take time for the system to fill, even with a prefilled filter.

I agree that with a filled primed engine oil pressure will be (more or less) instantaneous

I'd definately not try to run or even start the engine until I found and fixed the fault. Running the engine without oil pressure will damage the big ends in short order, possibly scoring the journals then you're looking at a possible crank regrind (expensive and that's best case). Remove the plugs, to reduce big end loading and pull the injection relay to stop running the pump or energising the coils and spin it on the starter

You could inspect the big end shells and journals, as you stated you ran the bike with low pressure for a few blocks.

If I was in your position, I'd do the easy stuff first though, oil filter gasket and tightness, sump gasket integrity, probably check the PRV as it's right there anyway. After doing that I'd refill it and do a spin test on the starter with a gauge, if that doesn't work out, then I'd start to delve deeper, big end damage, pump inspection etc:

Somebody suggested doing a static pressure test on the switch, but most folks don't have a static pressure tester available, or even a fitting with the correct threads to test it with a bicycle or car tyre pump.

Scud's offer is generous and it's what I'd do after the inspection work already suggested

To try to give the OP some idea, here is a HiCam engine after being drained and refilled. The oil pressure will not be as high as seen in the clip.

I posted to give some sort of clue of what you would see after a fill and a primed oil filter. Note that it takes a short time for the system to prime and once oil pressure starts come up, its pretty rapidly established. I'd expect to see somewhere around 60psi give or take, but as @p6x has stated perhaps on the V11 it's closer to 70psi

 

[Scud]

3 hours ago, Weegie said:

... couple of points here one of which puzzle me.

@Scud said remove the oil pump how you can remove the pump with 4 bolts from the sump? I thought it lived in the timing chest and would take a lot more than 4 bolts. What am I missing?

 

My fault - I was describing the removal of the oil filter housing, which also has the pressure relief valve in it. What I wrote earlier has nothing to do with removing the pump itself.

I'll go back and edit those posts - cuz that was a dumb thing I wrote.

[Lucky Phil]

6 hours ago, LowRyter said:

More importantly, do those metal gaskets fit?  Specifically says Norge, last model Cali, Breva &  Griso (1100/1200)

Yep, a Griso 1100 gasket fits a V11. I've had or still have valpolini gaskets on my V11 thats fitted with Griso 1100 valve covers. Same as the later MLS Breva head gaskets fit our bikes and mean you don't need to re torque the heads and reduce the squish clearance to something that actually squishes. 

Ciao

[Weegie]

10 hours ago, Scud said:

My fault - I was describing the removal of the oil filter housing, which also has the pressure relief valve in it. What I wrote earlier has nothing to do with removing the pump itself.

I'll go back and edit those posts - cuz that was a dumb thing I wrote.

Heh Scud I hope no offence is taken, not dumb merely a slip

I wouldn't even have mentioned it, had p6x not agreed with your post and I thought it might confuse the OP

I'm the last one to "cast a stone" when it comes to dumb, I still cringe at my "howlers"  and maturity has done little to improve the situation

John

[p6x]

6 hours ago, Weegie said:

Heh Scud I hope no offence is taken, not dumb merely a slip

I wouldn't even have mentioned it, had p6x not agreed with your post and I thought it might confuse the OP

I'm the last one to "cast a stone" when it comes to dumb, I still cringe at my "howlers"  and maturity has done little to improve the situation

John

I agreed with the principle " since you are there, you may as well". Since he had the lower part of the sump already out, it seemed reasonable to check as much before bolting everything back.

This was the line of my thinking; in principle.

Obviously you guys know much more than myself about the inner works of a V11, as I have never done anything on mine, and it does not look I will any time soon.

[Nihontochicken]

Okay, after a decent amount of procrastination, I finally removed the oil pressure sensor.  A 21mm hex???  Must be Italian.  Of course, after I had unscrewed the sensor, it fell out of the socket as I was removing it and lodged itself where I couldn't see it.  So I back the scooter out of the garage into the bright sunlight and grab the high intensity flashlight.  I find that it wedged itself into a little form fitting nook between the lower cylinder fin and the crankcase.  Talk about tight.  I didn't shred my hand all that badly in fishing it out, just some bruises, no blood.  I count that as a win.  

So is there something I can do to determine whether the sensor is good or not?  The lower sump cover is still off, so I would need to backtrack to check or measure oil pressure at the sensor hole.  TIA for goodly advice.

[Lucky Phil]

2 minutes ago, Nihontochicken said:

Okay, after a decent amount of procrastination, I finally removed the oil pressure sensor.  A 21mm hex???  Must be Italian.  Of course, after I had unscrewed the sensor, it fell out of the socket as I was removing it and lodged itself where I couldn't see it.  So I back the scooter out of the garage into the bright sunlight and grab the high intensity flashlight.  I find that it wedged itself into a little form fitting nook between the lower cylinder fin and the crankcase.  Talk about tight.  I didn't shred my hand all that badly in fishing it out, just some bruises, no blood.  I count that as a win.  

So is there something I can do to determine whether the sensor is good or not?  The lower sump cover is still off, so I would need to backtrack to check or measure oil pressure at the sensor hole.  TIA for goodly advice.

Just replace it and be done with it. They are a known weak ling and probably should be a "hard time" component any way. 

Ciao

[Weegie]

Unless you have a fitting that can accept the pressure switch and then attach it to some sort of air or liquid device to exert pressure, no there isn't AFAIK

The switch could be tested with a compressor or even a bicyle pump if you had a compatible fitting though, but really as Phil stated it's just easier and cheaper to replace it.

You could pull the plugs and injection relay and spin it on the starter without the pressure switch installed, you'll soon know if it's making pressure, but you're probably going to shoot oil everywhere, so don't do it in the front room or next to the wife's new car etc:

When the oil switch is out and the lead attached to it is off and not touching anything, turn on the ignition. The light should be out, if it's on then it's grounding elsewhere.

If you touch the lead onto the engine casing the light should go on.

[LowRyter]

If you have determined that you have good oil pressure, it would be sense to replace the switch.   

I haven't kept up with your situation but you do have oil pressure?

[Nihontochicken]

10 hours ago, Weegie said:

Unless you have a fitting that can accept the pressure switch and then attach it to some sort of air or liquid device to exert pressure, no there isn't AFAIK

The switch could be tested with a compressor or even a bicyle pump if you had a compatible fitting though, but really as Phil stated it's just easier and cheaper to replace it.

You could pull the plugs and injection relay and spin it on the starter without the pressure switch installed, you'll soon know if it's making pressure, but you're probably going to shoot oil everywhere, so don't do it in the front room or next to the wife's new car etc:

When the oil switch is out and the lead attached to it is off and not touching anything, turn on the ignition. The light should be out, if it's on then it's grounding elsewhere.

If you touch the lead onto the engine casing the light should go on.

Okay, I had the similar idea yesterday to try to pressurize the oil light switch, and so today I jury rigged a tire hand pump to the fitting with duct tape (what else?) and hose clamps. 

With the ignition on and the oil pressure fitting out, no lit low OP light.  With an electrical lead from the OP lead to ground, the light comes on, so the circuitry outside of the OP switch appears to be working okay. 

There was some leakage with the test set up, so no constant pressure reading was possible, but I think I could get up to a transient maybe 20 psi.  Whatever, with the ignition on and the switch connected, the OP light went out when I pushed on the hand pump at about 10 psi or thereabouts.  So the switch appears to be working, and the malady lurks somewhere else.

I was hoping to avoid removing the inside oil sump shell, but that looks to be the next move after I remove the oil filter to check for a missing or double gasket.  First I need to devise some way of keeping the scooter upright after removing the side stand.  Sigh.