Startus interruptus fix caused other problems. Advice needed please!

[Jim in NZ]

Hi, I have a 2004 V11 Coppa Italia. The wiring diagram in my handbook that came with the bike looks to be the same as Carl Allison's 2004 V11 Sport Catalytic, except the wire colours are different.

I took the ignition switch off, but was unable to get it apart. Sprayed Inox into it and worked it around to clean the contacts. Still wouldn't start, so I followed posts from KiwiRoy and Pete Roper (which I thought applied to my bike but with hindsight obviously didn't), and connected terminal 30 of the starter relay via a fuse directly to battery positive.

The bike starts now, but with the ignition off, the headlight and oil light operate continuously. The brake light goes if I pull the brake lever. (The oil light goes out when I start the bike.)

If I pull out the lighting relay, there's no problem with the ignition off, but with the ignition on, I have no headlight, oil light or brake light.

I'm now stuck as to what to do next. Access to relay wires is almost impossible, and having cut the wire to terminal 30 of the starter relay I can't get enough wire on the loom side of the cut to reverse what I have done and join it up again. I'm no electrician, and would really appreciate advice specific for my model please (wiring diagram as above). If there's more than one way, that would be great too, so I can pick one with reasonable access.

Many thanks   -Jim.

 

[Tomchri]

Jim, since none of the real competemt guys have responded. My quess is you are reading, and reading. It's all here on the forum. You need to reverse what you did to the wiring, and put on an extra relay for starting. Quite simple wiring to do it, problem solved,,, just take care of your kill switch,,, and the other electric connections  .

Cheers Tom

[docc]

Just as a disclaimer, I have the earlier wiring on mySport. Yet, I just assisted another member in supplying power to his Start Relay on a 1200Sport.

EDIT: My understanding is that this is the same wiring as the later V11 (through the Ignition Switch). [edit:Nope. Sure it is the same that it goes through the Igntion Switch, but the V11 has a 5-pin Start Relay to power the Light Relay, whereas, the 1200Sport does not.]

@Jim in NZ, can you confirm which relay (from the front) you rewired ?

Also, try replacing the second relay (ideally with a High Current OMRON) in case that relay has stuck closed.

[Jim in NZ]

Tomchri, thanks for your reply. Yes there's so much information on the forum, but it is very confusing as to what advice applies to what model - I've already made a wrong judgment on that! I'm in unfamiliar territory here.

If I understand you correctly, I have to put the wiring back how it was (somehow). Then I can use the power that currently goes from relay terminal 87 down to the spade terminal of the starter motor, to operate the solenoid of a new relay. The heavy current side of the new relay would connect the battery + terminal to the spade terminal on the starter motor. Have I got that right?

Could you please explain what you mean by "just take care of your kill switch,,, and the other electric connections" ?

I appreciate your help, thank-you.

Cheers,   -Jim.

[docc]

I would surely verify Relay#2 has not failed and stuck closed. That would give you those exact symptoms. 

[Jim in NZ]

Docc, I rewired the front relay.

The second relay has not stuck closed. If I make and break the connection to the battery negative terminal, I can hear and feel the relay flicking closed and open as the headlight goes on and off.

How did you help the member with the 1200 Sport?

Cheers,  Jim.

[docc]

Excellent, then, man. Just trying to cover the simple bases and understand how your symptoms could be occurring.

I very simply ran fused power directly to the Start Relay after removing the original power wire from the Ignition Switch. The primary difference in the V11, that I can see, is that our Start Relay is a 5-pin that routes power to those lighting circuits (through Relay#2) you describe unless the starter is engaged.

When you engage the starter (cranking), does the headlamp go out?

[Jim in NZ]

Docc, I can see now on the wiring diagram (with the benefit of hindsight!) that when terminal 30 on the start relay is live all the time, it is feeding terminal 87A which goes to the solenoid of the lights relay so would turn on the headlight.

[docc]

So, is it possible the Startus Interuptus remedy for the V11 requires an additional relay, rather than simply direct power to the existing relay?

[Jim in NZ]

Docc, as I understand your modification, that is exactly what I did.

Sorry, I can't test whether the light goes out when the starter is cranking because my ignition switch is still partly dismantled. But I'm pretty sure it did.

[Jim in NZ]

Docc, yes, Tomchri has suggested an extra relay. This must work, as far as I can see. If I do that, my problem is restoring the original wiring. Access to relay wires is almost impossible, and having cut the wire to terminal 30 of the starter relay I can't get enough wire on the loom side of the cut to reverse what I have done and join it up again. I guess I am going to have to cut into the wiring loom without cutting any wires, and try to expose some more of the wire that I cut.

[docc]

44 minutes ago, Jim in NZ said:

Docc, as I understand your modification, that is exactly what I did.

Sorry, I can't test whether the light goes out when the starter is cranking because my ignition switch is still partly dismantled. But I'm pretty sure it did.

I'll have to search Kiwi_Roy's posts on this, but I must correct my earlier post that the 2008 1200Sport I worked on "has the same wiring" as the later V11. It surely cannot because it has a 4-pin relay (1200 Sport) and the V11 uses the 5-pin to pull in the #2 Headlight Relay.

Yes, +1 with @Tomchri, I seem to recall the V11 Startus Interuptus remedy requires an additional relay [edit] is one way to do this. [edit: But look below at powering the headlmap relay with the cut wire from the Ignition Switch.]

[docc]

Hold the phone, Jim! I think I have your answer! Put down the snips and step back from the bike!!

 

[docc]

As I understand this, you can leave your existing change in place and use the wire you cut (from the ignition switch) to power 87A on Relay#2 and you're set.

[Jim in NZ]

OK, thanks for that, docc. I will have to go and digest this whole thread for a while. Looks like I might have a couple of options to choose from. Both involve access to the wire I cut from the ignition switch, which I cut off very short in order to leave a "tail" on the spade connector to the relay to extend it.

I think I will be able to figure it out now. Many thanks docc and Tomchri, I appreciate your help. I know this is a well-worn subject on this forum, but most of the posts assume more knowledge/experience than what I have!

Cheers,    Jim.