Is the Griso 8V the ultimate Guzzi big block ?

[Guzzimax]

I’ve never really been excited by cruisers. I’ve got a Gen 1 & Gen 2 VMAX but they’re not real cruisers (standard bars & foot pegs) and in the case of the Gen 2 they handle well for heavy (310 kgs) bike. The feet forward & foot boards of the Cali 1400 don’t do it for me. Also doesn’t the 1400 motor have a single throttle body, and I recall reading some where that the 1400 head design is very restrictive ? Narrow ports / poor gas flow compared to the 1200 motor?

Fully appreciate that the 1200 roller tappet motor in the Stelvio is the same as the Griso’s and if adventure bikes were my thing I’d probably rate them above the Griso, but IMHO aesthetically & dynamically the Griso 1200 is the ultimate big block development for me

[biesel]

To answer the thread title: yes!

I have owned the V11 Le Mans Rosso Corsa before and already test rode the 1100 Griso in 2005 and was very impressed.

But the 8V 1200 model is a completely different animal. It has so much torque and pulls so strong - something you will never experience with a 2 valve Guzzi.

[Twin AH]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:28 PM, LowRyter said:

The newer bikes are superior to the old ones for the last 20 years, whether by wire or cable.  The 85TT or my Ducati have perfect throttle control.  No Power Commander, re-jets,  Up Maps. etc.

The only modification that Duc (SS) riders are doing to the "ride by wire" are putting in spacers to take out any throttle play that was purposely designed into the system to "feel" like a traditionally cable.  I'm fine with the factory design BTW.  

The 1400T that I've ridden rode perfectly -throttle wise.  I understand that some of the later 1400s had lean maps and weren't perfect.  Nothing to do with RBW.

Nope..........That's not what I felt.

Ride by wire new design has the same detached feeling from a throttle response.

Its the same with the auto industry systems, nature of the beast I guess.

I've ridden quite a few and they all have that peculiar detached feel about them( you can not command with authority and accuracy I guess is what I'm trying to say ) IMHO.

 

Ciao

[Chris Wilson]

Happy with the Bellagio.

Dodged the tappet issue, far superior range, seat is fantastically comfortable and power suits the Tonti frame.

Never ridden a Griso but not many Griso owners may have ridden a Bellagio.

Chris.

[footgoose]

probably because I can't have it ... but.. I want it

[pete roper]

22 hours ago, Chris Wilson said:

Happy with the Bellagio.

Dodged the tappet issue, far superior range, seat is fantastically comfortable and power suits the Tonti frame.

Never ridden a Griso but not many Griso owners may have ridden a Bellagio.

Chris.

Bellagio is probably the best 2 valve engine built but the 8V is without a doubt superior in every way apart from fuel economy and perhaps smoothness. Having said that the 1400 motors are ridiculously smooth!

While it has been done putting the 8V into the quasi Tonti frame of the Bellagio would be a foolish move. In the same way that some people insist on bolting an old five speed onto the 8V and sticking it in a Tonti frame the simple fact is the frame isn't designed to handle the output of the motor. A decent Bellagio makes about 70RWHP, a V11 makes about 76. An 8V 1200, even with the stock factory mapping which is far too rich at the top end, makes 96 and with a decent map will make 'About 100' with a big boost in torque all the way through the rev range.

Once rollerised all the 1200's are effectively the same motor and despite their differences in intake and exhaust designs can all be made to make the same figures or close to. Whether one prefers the Griso, Sport, Norge or Stelvio they are all much of a muchness in terms of performance.

In my opinion the 1200 8V was the pinnacle of the engine's development. What machine it's in isn't really an issue. Others will probably choose to differ. I'm not going to argue.

 

Oh, and Chris? Next time you're up take the Green Horror out for a flog. Gearing it down, even a tiny bit, has improved it even more IMO. Even with my gargantuan carcass on it I keep lofting the front wheel unintentionally pulling away from the lights!  Not bad for something with the wheelbase of a supertanker with what resembles a hippopotamus riding it!

[Twin AH]

Yup I would agree.......... that final gen Griso is a keeper, so much satisfaction with that powerplant.

That being said I love that silky smooth power delivery and trans of the 1200 Sport just as much.

And those 2 valve Spinneys are just as addictive in a totally different way....... and then there is those larger than life Hi-Cam motors that make ya giggle like a school girl when you pull out and pass at just a little over posted.   

Sorry Pete got a little carried away there my Bad.

Ciao

[ScuRoo]

Is the Griso 8V the ultimate Guzzi big block ?   🤔

"You've Gotta' Ask Yourself A Question. 'Do I Feel Lucky?' Well Do Ya... PUNK?"

 

Better than the new V100 motore liquido??  😳

 

[po18guy]

We have to define big block. Original architecture? Then the V11. High cams-short pushrods, then something earlier or later. All argumentation aside, is not the V100 the ultimate big block, albeit in shrink-wrap form?

[pete roper]

6 minutes ago, po18guy said:

We have to define big block. Original architecture? Then the V11. High cams-short pushrods, then something earlier or later. All argumentation aside, is not the V100 the ultimate big block, albeit in shrink-wrap form?

Nope. It is a completely new design. Gone is any semblance of a familial construction with generational change. The only thing it has in common with the old powerplant is the fact it is a V twin, it's not even a 90* twin I don't think? It'll be running balance shafts or weights of some sort I'm pretty sure.

The clutch no longer resides behind the crank and in front of the gearbox, the cylinders are cast into the upper crankcase so it no longer has barrels per se. It utilises double overhead cams and downdraft induction. The list of dis-similarities is almost endless, it bears no resemblance to any previous Guzzi twin.

At the end of the day the fact that muppets and dingbats insisted, probably still do, on sticking Cali 1400 motors into Tonti frames with all of the inadequate transmission componentry right through to the back wheel and then throw carburettors on these pieces of munt and can get away with it clearly indicates a familial timeline. With the V100 that lineage is irrevocably severed.

if you look at the Hi Cams, both 'Old' and 'New' you will see that the two to one reduction for the cam drive is achieved by simply repurposing what was the camshaft in early motors before running a 1 to 1 drive from the dummy shaft to the camshafts. Even the MGS-01 utilises a truncated version of this drive to allow for stroking of the crank, (And one assumes a minor weight saving?). What the V100 uses I'm not sure but it will either be a single chain to double tooth sprockets on the cams or a 1 to 1 chain to idler shaft with 1/2 speed gearing to the cams. Both systems completely different to anything previously used.

Nope. The 'Big Block' as we knew it is gone. Get out your handkerchiefs and wave it off into the sunset of its well earned retirement. The V100 starts a brand new, but much shorter, chapter for Guzzi under the stewardship of Piaggio. I just hope the wait was worth it and the direction they are heading is worth going in.

[po18guy]

Some Guzzi fans are going through the same angst that the H-D guys are over liquid cooling, V-Rods, shocking electrics and whatnot. Honestly, I think its all academic.

[pete roper]

Liquid cooling is great! Well past time for it! Just don't say that to the corn cob pipists! They'll have an instant aneurysm and spray you with phlegm and faecal matter as their brains melt!

[Lucky Phil]

17 minutes ago, pete roper said:

Liquid cooling is great! Well past time for it! Just don't say that to the corn cob pipists! They'll have an instant aneurysm and spray you with phlegm and faecal matter as their brains melt!

Yes liquid cooling is far superior to air cooling on motor cycles. Arguing for air cooling over liquid cooling is like trying to make an argument for a kick starter over an electric start, it's, well, a non starter. Old military aircraft there are good arguments for air cooling.

Ciao

[ScuRoo]

🤨

5 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Yes liquid cooling is far superior to air cooling on motor cycles.

Sure, maybe superior.

Also a bit superfluous.

 

But definitely ain’t cool.

😎

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, ScuRoo said:

🤨

Sure, maybe superior.

Also a bit superfluous.

 

But definitely ain’t cool.

😎

I've never found sitting on the side of the road with an overheating engine waiting for it to cool down before you can continue riding to be particularly cool myself.

Ciao