Alternator/(generator?) not charging

[4corsa]

Thanks Docc. Yes, it's a PC545, approximately 5 years old according to the previous owner. I did in fact get a reading on the battery at idle: 13.28v (before I went for the ride).
I use the attached 7.5amp Duracell charger. It was recommended by an old-timer at Batteries+ who said he was very familiar with the PC545.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[docc]

Cool! 7.5 amps should be adequate.  13.28v at idle looks fine, but should increase to 14.2v at even 2002-2500 rpm and stay stable as the rpm increases.

"Discharge before charging" for best results . . . monitor voltage while charging with any external charger: it should never exceed 15.0v or "float" below the 13.5-13.8v range. -> NEVER below 13.2v!

[4corsa]

Great - thank you for the info Docc. I wish I measured again at idle after the ride, I gotta believe it would have been higher than the 13.28. I'll definitely measure the voltage while it's on the charger and keep an eye on it.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[docc]

Oh, yeah, there is the thing about isolating the regulator from external charging (pull the 30 amp fuse while charging). Some say, "Yeah, whatever", but my regulator supplier says to isolate the regulator from external charging.

[4corsa]

Forgot about that.
I'm going to send that screenshot to my contact at ElectroSport and see what he says - will report back.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[docc]

FWIW, my latest (#4) OEM type regulator invoice, January 2018, from Euro MotoElectrics, Denver, CO/USA, does not have this advice added.

My #2 regulator (first replacement in 2005) came from a Moto Guzzi dealer.

It was Regulator #3 (also from Euro MotoElectrics), July 2010, that had those advice labels added.

[4corsa]

Ok, here is the reply from ElectroSport regarding charging and an extra ground:

"You do not need to disconnect the reg/rect when charging.
I suppose an additional ground might be helpful, I cannot see how it could hurt in any way, so it is a good idea.  But I would not say it is required.  Every reg/rect could benefit from additional ground connections but in most cases it would make no difference."

Thank you,

Kyle Wood - Sales Manager

Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
21 Brookline, Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
PH: (949) 305-4200
www.electrosport.com



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[docc]

Thanks, @4corsa !

The matter of disconnecting during charging has always been debatable, yet I figured it was worth following those instructions if it helped the regulator last any longer. Here again, though, I can just pull out the service switch on my added 30 amp circuit breaker. I would risk fatiguing the female terminals by pulling and replacing the fuse every time.

Certainly with regard to how we know the regulator is so very poorly grounded on the V11, we should all be able to agree that a dedicated ground is very well indicated, in our case.

[p6x]

Disconnecting before charging a battery was also something I was raised with.

But that was so many years ago.

Aren't Zener diodes used to protect the regulator?

[MartyNZ]

Here's a post I made previously on charger use:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20617-charging-the-battery-hooked-up-in-the-bike-bad-idea/#elControls_236544_menu

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

IMHO you must provide a decent ground cable to the regulator case, all the current that passes through the red wire to the battery has to find its way back from chassis to the regulator case, the tiny black wire all the way back to the battery doesn't cut it.

The Ducati Energia regulator doesn't directly control the battery Voltage, it regulates the Voltage between its black wire and case ground to 13.8 Volts so if the case is not connected to battery negative properly the Voltage you drop between negative and the case is lost. Probably when the bike was new it made fairly good contact to chassis but as it ages it has to rely more and more on the thin black wire. The path through the engine to the main ground connection to the battery is many times better than the black wire.

A short heavy wire from the regulator case to a timing cover bolt is a vast improvement.

I have even suggested using an aluminium strap in place of a wire with suitable grease to stop corrosion of course.

[4corsa]

...to add to Kiwi_Roy's post, the rep from ElectroSport who set up my regulator with the correct connectors tied off the small black ground wire so it is not used. He said to make sure the connection at the case to the bracket was clean and tight as that makes a better ground. That said, I'm going to attach a heavy gauge wire from under the regulator fastener washer to a timing case bolt as Kiwi_Roy recommends. A guaranteed ground for 10 minutes worth of work - why not?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[Kiwi_Roy]

Another word against the small black wire guzzi provide,

Some owners have experienced a poor connection on the main battery ground, in this case when you try to start the starter current tries to get back to the battery through the regulator ground turning it red hot which causes it to melt the insulation off other wires in the loom, I used to have a picture of that mess.

On my 2001 the regulator was fitted to the horn bracket, nothing had been done to remove the paint from where the bracket contacted the chassis, A short wire from the regulator case to a timing cover screw takes care of all that..The other problem with the Ducti Energia regulator is it takes it's Voltage reference from the headlight circuit downstream of the headlight relay, that point can be anywhere from 0,6 to 1 Volt lower than the actual battery Voltage. Battery charge current vs Charging Voltage is some sort of exponential relationship so if you drop too much at the reference point you wind up with too much charge current and cook the regulator.

IMHO you are much better to have a modern direct connect regulator even with its tiny leakage current.

The modern V7s use a Chinese Shindengen regulator, I would use one of those before I bought another Ducati Energia.

Look at Carl Allisons schematics on Greg Benders site, you will see the difference there. 

[4corsa]

Have been meaning to post this for a couple weeks, and seems like a good follow-up to Kiwi_Roy's post above. I made the ground from my new ElectroSport unit as shown. I believe the wire is 14 ga., and I did sand off the paint at the connection point.
Please note this photo is taken from below looking up - the wires aren't really visible from standing position.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[Kiwi_Roy]

12 hours ago, 4corsa said:

Have been meaning to post this for a couple weeks, and seems like a good follow-up to Kiwi_Roy's post above. I made the ground from my new ElectroSport unit as shown. I believe the wire is 14 ga., and I did sand off the paint at the connection point.
Please note this photo is taken from below looking up - the wires aren't really visible from standing position.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
 

You can see from the picture the bolt and spring clip do a very poor job of grounding the regulator, there's up to 30 Amps flowing between the painted metal bracket and the case, also I believe that bracket is bolted to the chassis with painted to painted surface, your beefy jumper wire at least has a fighting chance. I hope you used some form of corrosion inhibitor.

I have in the past suggested that an aluminium strap could be used instead of copper wire cutting down on the number of different materials.

I'm guessing you used an ESR515 which has no ground wire.