Lucky Phil Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Lucky Phil said: This has some nice detailed images. Turn the sound down as the "Guesstimator" doing the commentary has nothing useful to add. Ciao Oops forgot the link. Ciao 1 1
Chris Wilson Posted October 21, 2021 Posted October 21, 2021 On 9/13/2021 at 3:15 PM, pete roper said: Bloody difficult to add a bolt-on reactive drive Chris...... http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/mono2para/mono2para.htm If their is a will there is a way.
pete roper Posted October 21, 2021 Posted October 21, 2021 I think that just proves my point. My mate Dave, (RIP.) had a Harris swingarm on his MkVI LeMans that floated the bevelbox. It was an absolute frontbottom of a thing! 2
Chris Wilson Posted October 21, 2021 Posted October 21, 2021 Just wondering how the "Aerotech" behind the headers claim to work when it's well ..... behind the headers? Anyone who knows the slightest about aerodynamics can see at a glance that it would do zero. Calling marketing bullshit on this one. Chris.
po18guy Posted October 21, 2021 Posted October 21, 2021 Boat tail bullets. Much more aerodynamic. Greatly reduced drag coefficient. Sometimes the gains are behind rather than ahead.
Chris Wilson Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 7 hours ago, po18guy said: Boat tail bullets. Much more aerodynamic. Greatly reduced drag coefficient. Sometimes the gains are behind rather than ahead. From reducing drag I agree, but deflection, no matter how it's done increases it. The so called aerodynamic blade sits in the highly turbulent area behind a bluff object and would accomplish little.
Lucky Phil Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Chris Wilson said: Just wondering how the "Aerotech" behind the headers claim to work when it's well ..... behind the headers? Anyone who knows the slightest about aerodynamics can see at a glance that it would do zero. Calling marketing bullshit on this one. Chris. Umm, I think you're taking the opinion of a non technical, "social media commentator", millennial a little to seriously. As an aircraft engineer I figure I know something about aerodynamics and as opposed to a previous poster that proffered the idea it's a mechanical support of the header I actually think its an aerodynamic guide/redirector/deflector for hot air from the back of the header away from the foot peg area and riders feet. If you look closely it appears the deflectors forward edge is a little bit inside the line of the inside of the header pipe and captures the the trailing hot air from that area and redirects it back outboard across the lower part of the header pipe and heat shield and away from the riders foot and lower leg. Guzzi have a fairly proud history with regards to aerodynamics which guarantees nothing but it seems to be functional to me. Ciao 2
po18guy Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 Any aero improvement on bikes is huge (Euro 6,7,8 etc.) as bikes are pushing a barn door as compared even with the blockiest of cars. A couple of cylinders jutting out into the airstream, liquid-cooled or not, is no help as far as aero goes. Since many members here will run out and purchase the first bikes on sale, we will soon know. Right...??? 1
Lucky Phil Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 4 hours ago, po18guy said: Any aero improvement on bikes is huge (Euro 6,7,8 etc.) as bikes are pushing a barn door as compared even with the blockiest of cars. A couple of cylinders jutting out into the airstream, liquid-cooled or not, is no help as far as aero goes. Since many members here will run out and purchase the first bikes on sale, we will soon know. Right...??? Well I won't. I always let the "first adopters" "must have the latest and greatest" "everyone look at me and my new model bike" crowd finish off the R&D for the factory, iron out the production issues and let the dealership mechanics use their bikes as a learning tool first. I usually slide in after a couple of years when the design has had a bit of time to "mature" Ciao 3
docc Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 Hey ! I resemble that remark! Seriously, I’m about to get my first year production V11 Sport fully sorted. Just need to swap out for the later frame upgrade……. 4
Chuck Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 Quote Guzzi have a fairly proud history with regards to aerodynamics which guarantees nothing but it seems to be functional to me. Agreed. The "wings" on the Lario look to be nothing but a styling exercise.. but they, combined with the minimalist fairing provide much better weather protection than you would think by looking at it. 1
po18guy Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 No doubt that there is a fair amount of Piaggio puffery involved in this new model. It almost seems that they spent as much on the promo video as they did on the bike itself. As to the aero (trim tabs actually), one needs only ensure that both are either out or in when the Tyco relay goes. 1 1
Chris Wilson Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 16 hours ago, Lucky Phil said: Umm, I think you're taking the opinion of a non technical, "social media commentator", millennial a little to seriously. As an aircraft engineer I figure I know something about aerodynamics and as opposed to a previous poster that proffered the idea it's a mechanical support of the header I actually think its an aerodynamic guide/redirector/deflector for hot air from the back of the header away from the foot peg area and riders feet. If you look closely it appears the deflectors forward edge is a little bit inside the line of the inside of the header pipe and captures the the trailing hot air from that area and redirects it back outboard across the lower part of the header pipe and heat shield and away from the riders foot and lower leg. Guzzi have a fairly proud history with regards to aerodynamics which guarantees nothing but it seems to be functional to me. Ciao Hi Phil, good to have a trained eye on this but please accept that I have had 50 years of being involved with model aircraft and kinda know where a bad place for a control surface would be. Low Reynolds number, shadowed by a bluff body, turbulent air stream all make for an ineffective device. Not arguing the intention but surely you, with less of a history in aerodynamics could design a better more fuel effective deflector in your sleep? The poster who mused that the "mad aero tech" would serve more purpose as a mechanical strengthener was me. And I stick by it. If you examine the entire body of the header you could well conclude that the heat sheild's wash could easily defeat any effect that the deflector has. It's a far bigger curved wing .....but look it's not worth arguing about further. Thanks, Chris. P.S. my guess with all of this is that in testing the bike the riders detected a heat waft coming from repositioned pipes, the accountants said no to double walling, the stylists said make it a feature and the engineers said provide something to obviate the predicted complaints - it doesn't have to work it merely has to be an attempt.
Lucky Phil Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 Well I'm not prosecuting a case that the new bikes deflectors are the last word in aerodynamic efficiency or functionality but I can see aerodynamic logic and function there although a better view up close would be nice. Time will tell I guess. BTW a header shaped like this doesn't need any mechanical support, it's a pretty basic header in the scheme of things really and not even very long. A std v11 header is considerably longer than this one and so less supported. Ciao
Chris Wilson Posted October 23, 2021 Posted October 23, 2021 Mechanical support for the heat shield not the pipe. It would serve better use as a mitred brace if the shield is only clipped to the header in two points. (Sure I mentioned that before, then again maybe I didn't.)
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