Moto Guzzi V100 Sport Tourer: water cooled, 120 HP (26th of August 2021)

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I don't really like the look of this bike. But it isn't being marketed towards me. I do like the engine design, so far. I am fine with the liquid cooling and the way the exhaust and intake are oriented.

Like others, I am disappointed about the apparent lack of a reaction rod system for the rear drive. It should be there on any shaft drive bike making more than 50 hp or so. And if this motor is making over 100 hp there is no doubt it should have one. I am not sure the suspension will be a winner. On the one hand, it is using a cantilever shock with what looks to be a straight rate spring. The V11 uses that. But the location of where the shock connect to the system is vastly different, and that will likely change the way the rising rate curve performs. I am not confident that it will be able to control the rear. Add to that the torque reaction when you get on the gas trying to extend the swing arm, making the suspension overly stiff and non-compliant, and reversing that when you let off the gas (making the suspension overly soft). I have ridden a fairly powerful shaft drive bike without a reaction rod setup and while you can ride around it you do notice the difference. Given the choice I would choose shaft drive with the reaction rod setup. Just making the rear swingarm extra long helps, but it isn't going to solve the problem.

Anyway, I would not buy this Guzzi, but I hope they build a Guzzi on this platform I would buy. I am not overly confident they will, but I am hopeful. It is certainly better than where they were going before now, with only the small block line and those big cruisers. I am happy with the basic premise of a liquid cooled modern Guzzi engine. Now lets see where they take this.

Oh, and for the record, the Centauro was not ugly, and the MGS01 was the sexiest Guzzi they are made. The V11 is at best the second sexiest Guzzi they ever made.

I'm wondering if the electronic suspension model might have a variable damping capability tied to throttle position/engine torque output. So when you get on the throttle the rear shock rebound rate is increased proportionally  to help lessen the jacking. Lots of scope in electronic suspension control these days.

Of course chain drive sports bike jack the rear suspension on the power and are set up to do it so obviously some is required. It's a matter of proportion and control.

Ciao

[R.I.P. Mikko]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Oh, and for the record, the Centauro was not ugly, and the MGS01 was the sexiest Guzzi they are made. The V11 is at best the second sexiest Guzzi they ever made.

Daytona? At least that was built for a purpose. The Centauro is a bit of a mixed bag. The engine is the only thing I like about mine. The V11 is beautiful. 

[R.I.P. Mikko]

59 minutes ago, bbolesaz said:

These pictures are already making me wonder what a Guareschi kit for this chassis might look like.

 

It’s going to be places like Ghezzi, Milliepercento etc to build what the Piagio overlords forbid. 

[LowRyter]

I would guess that the bike should handle great.  After all, why invest in completely new bike, engine, frame, electronics, adaptive aero, new components, ohlins-E but skimp on the rear/drive suspension?

 

They would never do that   

[po18guy]

Someone here is going to have to take one for the team and buy one.

On the upside, the exhaust now appears to replace the old spark plug/head guard.

[Kremmen]

6 hours ago, Mikko said:

It’s going to be places like Ghezzi, Milliepercento etc to build what the Piagio overlords forbid. 

And the various Studio This and Studio That type outfits. Ghezzi doesn't seem to get into the full rebuild stuff much any more I think though, and it's been a while since the Alba etc. I hadn't thought about Guareschi but they might be the most active right now? Anyway, fingers crossed for interesting pretty goodies from whoever.

[Weegie]

Not in the market for a new bike anyway and too old and set in my ways.

Last thing I want is a bike that I need to spend 20minutes setting it up before I ride it and a bunch of servos, stepper motors and wiring which will go wrong, eventually.

Piaggio are a money making machine first, foremost, always so I totally get the Adventure thing, altough I'm a short arse and hate them.

I worry about the exhausts replacing the head guards, it's going to turn ugly when it falls over, even at standstill.

However if I was in the market for an Adventure bike, that would certainly appeal the Greenie looks very pretty IMHO comparing to the competition.

Guareschi just kick ASS, but that's the opinion of an out of touch old man living in the past

[Kremmen]

Eh? I'm young and hip and down with the kids, and I second this opinion!

OK that was a lie but you just can't argue with the Varano can you. Long CARC wheelbase or not, I wish I could get one on the road. Pop a Griso 8v in it and that'd be me all set.

[R.I.P. Mikko]

2 hours ago, Weegie said:

Last thing I want is a bike that I need to spend 20minutes setting it up before I ride it and a bunch of servos, stepper motors and wiring which will go wrong, eventually.

Exactly what I was implying when I said “do you think there’ll be a “v100forum” 20-30 years from now? All these screens, computer crap will have been obsolete and unobtainable. There’s a guy on YouTube sinking large amounts of money into a Ferrari 360 and he needed a engine ECM. 

Those run 2, he sent the bad one to a company that repairs ecm’s and they can’t fix it. The board was built by a computer and its impossible to replace anything on it. Of course Ferrari no longer supports it and new ones aren’t available.

This is where the world is headed. The Rent Seeking class continues to push towards planned obsolescence. We as a race are hurtling headlong into a situation where we are becoming increasingly ignorant and when something catastrophic happens… we’ll, it’ll be back to the Stone Age.

Something that I think has happened maybe more then once already. My newest ride is a 2010 Mercedes and it’s full of those devilish German Electrical Gremlins…

I had a good laugh looking at their new all electric model and thinking to myself that the 4-5th owner 10 years from now will be eternally screwed instead of thinking what a great deal they got paying 15% of MSRP.

[VtwinStorm]

28 minutes ago, Mikko said:

Exactly what I was implying when I said “do you think there’ll be a “v100forum” 20-30 years from now? All these screens, computer crap will have been obsolete and unobtainable. There’s a guy on YouTube sinking large amounts of money into a Ferrari 360 and he needed a engine ECM. 

Those run 2, he sent the bad one to a company that repairs ecm’s and they can’t fix it. The board was built by a computer and its impossible to replace anything on it. Of course Ferrari no longer supports it and new ones aren’t available.

This is where the world is headed. The Rent Seeking class continues to push towards planned obsolescence. We as a race are hurtling headlong into a situation where we are becoming increasingly ignorant and when something catastrophic happens… we’ll, it’ll be back to the Stone Age.

Something that I think has happened maybe more then once already. My newest ride is a 2010 Mercedes and it’s full of those devilish German Electrical Gremlins…

I had a good laugh looking at their new all electric model and thinking to myself that the 4-5th owner 10 years from now will be eternally screwed instead of thinking what a great deal they got paying 15% of MSRP.

I agree with all of what you said, Mikko.

Assume the gent with the Ferrari cannot locate a new ECM for any price, new, used, refurb. This is a critical part that removes total functionality from a product.

Without the ECM, that 360 becomes a paperweight. I'm also willing to bet, it is a 1-time application item, not shared with any other car, and it is totally proprietary. I hate the built-in, planned obsolescence engineering they are building into so many things now. TPTB don't want anyone to own assets. They want us all to lease, have a subscription, along recurring fees into perpetuity. A vehicle which can be cheaply and easily rebuilt by the every-man doesn't fit into that plan. We now live in a throwaway society and I hate it.

I find it unethical, wasteful, and insulting to the intelligence of the consumer. The only way I can push back is not buying anything new, and building a stash of "analog" parts that I know will be NLA in the near to distant future.

The new Guzzis will be great bikes. I know they will. However, in 10-20 years? Good luck.

The same reason I look at all the new Ducatis, TFT screens, lots of exotic electronics and complexity. All very expensive. All very fragile. All soon to be NLA, obsolete, and a motorcycle, that can no longer be used.

I look at these new bikes, and all I can say is "...no thank you."

[R.I.P. Mikko]

The computer repair company was able to source a good used ECM and program it for him. He stated that those are now many thousands of dollars if you can find one that works.

Although it’s a ticking time bomb because eventually a capacitor/relay/resistor will fail annnnd your back getting your passport stamped at the port of entry in “ScrewedLandia”

That company compared the Ferrari ECM to a BMW 7 Series ECM. That is conventionally built, large and individual components can be replaced.

 I just went through something similar with my dyer. It was working fine and then it’s not… I found a company Circuit Board Medics that fixes a whole slew of boards for all kinds of things. Good link to bookmark when you’ll need that service btw.

[GuzziMoto]

15 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I'm wondering if the electronic suspension model might have a variable damping capability tied to throttle position/engine torque output. So when you get on the throttle the rear shock rebound rate is increased proportionally  to help lessen the jacking. Lots of scope in electronic suspension control these days.

Of course chain drive sports bike jack the rear suspension on the power and are set up to do it so obviously some is required. It's a matter of proportion and control.

Ciao

On a chain drive motorcycle getting the relationship between swing arm pivot, counter shaft sprocket, and rear sprocket, right are key to getting the rear suspension to work under power. But I assume you know that.

The same tricks can be applied to a  reaction rod setup on a shaft drive motorcycle. You just fine tune the locations of the reaction rod ends. A little bit of energy being feed into the rear suspension may be a good thing to help deal with weight transfer. But too much is generally bad.

I will be curious to see how the details of this bike, and the others that follow, will play out. I am happy Guzzi finally has a proper big block engine. Now to see what they put it in.

[po18guy]

10 hours ago, Weegie said:

Not in the market for a new bike anyway and too old and set in my ways.

Last thing I want is a bike that I need to spend 20minutes setting it up before I ride it and a bunch of servos, stepper motors and wiring which will go wrong, eventually.

Piaggio are a money making machine first, foremost, always so I totally get the Adventure thing, altough I'm a short arse and hate them.

I worry about the exhausts replacing the head guards, it's going to turn ugly when it falls over, even at standstill.

However if I was in the market for an Adventure bike, that would certainly appeal the Greenie looks very pretty IMHO comparing to the competition.

Guareschi just kick ASS, but that's the opinion of an out of touch old man living in the past

I was going to say that, the more any future model (or aftermarket body kits) looks like the MGS-01, the better!

[po18guy]

Here's a vid with some close-up details and some fellow gushing over it.

With slightly lower bars, it might be seen as a NewGen Cafe Sport/Coppa Italia with the standard model a Novo Ballabio perhaps.

[PJPR01]

What Guzzi should offer is a high interest leasing program to the skeptical ones here, so that those who don't want to keep it, can ride it for 2 or 3 years, enjoy it and then turn it in and not worry about stashing parts for 10-20 years down the road in case you didn't care to keep it longer.  That should do away with all of the pooh poohing of the new bikes.