I have heard it explained many times that Guzzi V Twins are somewhat inspired by automotive practice...

[80CX100]

6 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

 I guess they're both 90deg 4 stroke piston engines 

I'm sure that upon close examination there would be many differences including the fine details of cooling, combustion chamber design etc, but the op's topic was about guzzi's design being inspired by automotive practices.

It definitely appears that at some point, someone in Italy looked at the American V8 and recognized that copying the basic design from the back 2 cylinders to the rear end made a lot of sense in a motorcycle, and it does.

fwiw

[Lucky Phil]

11 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

I'm sure that upon close examination there would be many differences including the fine details of cooling, combustion chamber design etc, but the op's topic was about guzzi's design being inspired by automotive practices.

It definitely appears that at some point, someone in Italy looked at the American V8 and recognized that copying the basic design from the back 2 cylinders to the rear end made a lot of sense in a motorcycle, and it does.

fwiw

What's that noise? Oh the sound of 60 million Italians groaning "Mamma Mia" and palms hitting foreheads.

Ciao

[docc]

1 minute ago, Lucky Phil said:

What's that noise? Oh the sound of 60 million Italians groaning "Mamma Mia" and palms hitting foreheads.

Ciao

[billgreenman1]

I was thinking that perhaps the Guzzi singles were inspired by WW1 aircraft engines (Anzani,etc.),and the trend evolved into more cylinders...  Just a thought.

[Lucky Phil]

17 minutes ago, billgreenman1 said:

I was thinking that perhaps the Guzzi singles were inspired by WW1 aircraft engines (Anzani,etc.),and the trend evolved into more cylinders...  Just a thought.

Who knows, possibly. Most engineering design is built on what's been done before and then re jigged and enhanced. There's not that many truly original ideas out there anymore. Off the top of my head without thinking about it "maybe" the Wankel engine and the other would be the Cosworth Head and "barrel turbulence" style cylinder filling as opposed to the accepted "swirl" style of the day. That was revolutionary, original and made a massive difference to combustion efficiency.

Ciao

[po18guy]

Just as the '55-'57 Chevys had 90º V engines, so also did Moto Guzzi's own '55-'57 GP racer. But, while racing could tolerate liquid cooling and frequent replacement of consumables, the road bike owner would likely not. I see the Ducati Apollo and Ariel Square Four being examples of too many air-cooled cylinders, given the heat dispersion and lubrication abilities of the day. So, why not cut the cylinder count down to a more manageable level, give them fins and rotate the cylinders out in the air stream? There being no O-ring or X-ring chains at the time, and given the bike's intended use, the air cooling and shaft drive made perfect sense. Particularly since a bevel drive would have to be added to use a chain. The design made such sense at the time, that Honda famously copied emulated it (probably claiming Lilac inspiration, but come on) with a new twist of the heads and the liquid cooling that the V8 possessed 20 years earlier.  Laverda also gave a tip of their hat to the basic layout in their V6 test mules. By way of truism, as it is with all things that are, the V11 is what it is.

Motorcycling history is littered with the carcasses of various men's brilliant ideas - ideas which were doomed for a variety of reasons. We have our idiosyncratic bikes through the persistence of the human will.

[VtwinStorm]

2 hours ago, po18guy said:

We have our idiosyncratic bikes through the persistence of the human will.

... and our souls are enriched by this as Guzzi owners...while our wallets curse us. 😆

If running a Guzzi is anything like a Ducati, I've a grasp on what to expect. $$$

To be fair, so far, parts aren't that bad. 

Then again, I don't yet need to buy a TPS for the V11... which is over $400 USD. That is a big ouchy.

[Chuck]

You may very well have to buy a TPS some day.. but they are under $100. The last one I bought was $42, but that's been a while.

[Chuck]

so also did Moto Guzzi's own '55-'57 GP racer.

They had the "L" twin in '33.. a little before Ducati.

[po18guy]

Dunno how good they are, but there are made in Italy TPS units for $80 or so. The early V11s are a little fussier than the later versions, but once the  "usual suspects" are banished, they are pretty good. Compare adjusting 4 in-the-wind valves with basically all other bikes and the V11 begins to look rather good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352802908767?hash=item5224b12a5f:g:SjIAAOxy0bRTAhm2

[VtwinStorm]

16 minutes ago, Chuck said:

You may very well have to buy a TPS some day.. but they are under $100. The last one I bought was $42, but that's been a while.

Just saw one listed on a Guzzi vendor site while browsing and it was the Magneti Marelli OEM TPS...was just over $400 USD. Glad there are alternatives that aren't so dear!

[LowRyter]

And it sounds like a small block Chevy.  

[po18guy]

10 hours ago, LowRyter said:

And it sounds like a small block Chevy.  

Well, I had a 283 that I built and that much is true. Our ears catch that 270º interval even out of the eight cylinders. There's an engineering fellow who has posted YouTube vids showing why various engines sound differently. It can be the number of cylinders, the firing interval between cylinders, or both. The cross-plane Yamaha R1 is completely unique. By firing interval, it is kind of like two Guzzi engines linked together. But it also has a hint of that V8 sound.

And here is Guzzi, Ducati etc. 270º twins.

In my youth, I would have thought it sounds like a 289 Studebaker, 327 Rambler, or 352 Packard. Of course, all are cross-plane V8s, so sound alike.

[p6x]

On 9/9/2021 at 10:38 PM, billgreenman1 said:

I was thinking that perhaps the Guzzi singles were inspired by WW1 aircraft engines (Anzani,etc.),and the trend evolved into more cylinders...  Just a thought.

I was going to post the exact same thing.

I got that story from an Italian enthusiast while working for Agip in Nigeria. He told me the V twin Guzzi was inspired by aircraft engines. I wish I had asked him how he knew that.

[Chuck]

I think the Guzzi 2 valve big block sounds like a small block Chevy. The Centauro at full cry sounds like a Can Am Chevy big block. The Aero engine sounds.. uhh.. different than them, but kool.

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