Single Plate Clutch

[Lucky Phil]

9 hours ago, p6x said:

To pick where @footgoose has left off, it is not so much about not being a "trained mechanic"; rather the required tooling to carry out the job safely is what makes it inaccessible to any other enthusiast.

I consider myself as a green horn with my V11, but I have already learned that getting the basic setup to work on your Guzzi is not as easy as I thought it would be. It is a relative investment, unless you are going to commit to do everything yourself.

Now speaking of workshops willing to carry out the job; I am fortunate to have several outfits willing to work on a Guzzi V11 2004 in my neck of the woods. I suppose you know, but a lot of motorcycle dealerships don't work on older bikes, including Guzzi official dealers.

I do not know where you are located in the USA, but you may want to check with whoever you think could do it, and make sure they would.

If you mean "Guzzi specific tooling" there is only 1 and that's the flywheel holding tool which is cheap to buy and needed when torqueing up the flywheel bolts. Maybe a clutch plate alignment tool for the twin platers. Not necessary on a RAM single plate unit. The rest is just std tooling. Even buying a few special tools is a lot cheaper and easier than taking it to a Mechanic.

 

Ciao

[fotoguzzi]

I have a complete clutch and flywheel from a Centauro if anyone is interested. 
full clutch with FW 8 pounds w/ring gear 11#

pretty sure it would work in any big twin accept the 95-1998 California's with the flywheel sensor.

 

[docc]

Since that clutch sat between a V10 Hi-cam and a 5Speed gearbox, will that go between a V11 motor and its 6speeder?

[p6x]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

If you mean "Guzzi specific tooling" there is only 1 and that's the flywheel holding tool which is cheap to buy and needed when torqueing up the flywheel bolts. Maybe a clutch plate alignment tool for the twin platers. Not necessary on a RAM single plate unit. The rest is just std tooling. Even buying a few special tools is a lot cheaper and easier than taking it to a Mechanic.

 

Ciao

I indicated "safely" for a reason.

It means having the proper work environment. It means some kind of setup to work on your motorcycle. I was not specifically hinting at Guzzi special tools.

Starting with the basics means (at least to me) the motorcycle lift, with appropriate stand and whatever else necessary to work in good conditions.

It also means torque wrench and various set of tools which may or may not be necessary depending on what you want to do. At least for me, this is the way I work on equipment.

When you say cheaper and easier, I will agree with cheaper, providing you already have a setup. I don't have anything at the moment, and just purchasing the few items required to rill two holes to install the formation instruments is proving to be an ordeal. Some of the items I wanted are back ordered, and I am yet to receive them.

But most of anything, my issue is space. Taking apart requires also a bench, maybe a bench vise and so on.

So easier? I would say MPH Houston has proven to be fairly cheap for what they did on the Le Mans so far, and I live 15 minutes from them. If I had not wanted to install the Formation myself, I am certain they would have drilled the two holes and tapped them for free.

And MPH is not the only shop that could cater to my Guzzi here.

[footgoose]

On 9/12/2021 at 8:01 PM, dbarb3 said:

After selling my 1200 Sport a few years back and going Japanese I am considering getting another Guzzi.

I am looking at a 2001 and from what I can read it has single plate clutch.  Is this just a matter of when or do some of this year model not have a clutch failure?

 

 

 

After I gave you information earlier that very well may be incorrect I did some research, at least the little I could find that I have some confidence in. I don't like giving out bad information and the aluminum flywheel saga has haunted these pages since I've been here.

In searching various parts books it shows that p/n's are consistent for Tenni, Scura, and RM for the flywheel and all the clutch parts. The fact that all the p/n's line up means the flywheels were at least interchangeable. That leaves the 'two sources of manufacture' theory. So Guzzi built the first 'batch' maybe in house, for installation on their first 'special', the lovely RM. Then at some point they presumably outsourced the next batch to cover the next 2 specials, and these are the bad ones. This seems to be what people are saying and could explain high mileage RM's with no clutch problems.

So the next question would be how many "good" flywheels did they make? Enough for the entire RM run? If so then some of the first Tenni/Scura out there got a good flywheel. If not enough then there's a few RM's out there with the bad flywheel. If there's any more info out there that might wrap this story up with a definitive answer I don't know where to look. Maybe someone else can add to this.

[footgoose]

20 minutes ago, p6x said:

I indicated "safely" for a reason.

It means having the proper work environment. It means some kind of setup to work on your motorcycle. I was not specifically hinting at Guzzi special tools.

Starting with the basics means (at least to me) the motorcycle lift, with appropriate stand and whatever else necessary to work in good conditions.

It also means torque wrench and various set of tools which may or may not be necessary depending on what you want to do. At least for me, this is the way I work on equipment.

When you say cheaper and easier, I will agree with cheaper, providing you already have a setup. I don't have anything at the moment, and just purchasing the few items required to rill two holes to install the formation instruments is proving to be an ordeal. Some of the items I wanted are back ordered, and I am yet to receive them.

But most of anything, my issue is space. Taking apart requires also a bench, maybe a bench vise and so on.

So easier? I would say MPH Houston has proven to be fairly cheap for what they did on the Le Mans so far, and I live 15 minutes from them. If I had not wanted to install the Formation myself, I am certain they would have drilled the two holes and tapped them for free.

And MPH is not the only shop that could cater to my Guzzi here.

If I'd had MPH that close they would have done my clutch for sure

[p6x]

7 minutes ago, footgoose said:

If I'd had MPH that close they would have done my clutch for sure

Unfortunately, these guys are one of a kind.... and judging on the amount of vintage motorbikes they have at any one time in the shop, I hope they keep going.

I am concerned they do not have any apprentice working with there, to learn the craft "on the job". All the workers are senior citizens...

And their usual turnaround is six weeks.... I have so far got a better treatment, they really like their motorcycles... I have seen more than a few beauties there... mainly BMWs.

[fotoguzzi]

14 hours ago, docc said:

Since that clutch sat between a V10 Hi-cam and a 5Speed gearbox, will that go between a V11 motor and its 6speeder?

I. Pretty sure it will but I'm not an expert on that.

[docc]

2 hours ago, fotoguzzi said:

I. Pretty sure it will but I'm not an expert on that.

Me neither. One reason I ask is that the gearbox input hubs differ on the V11 between the single plate and, more common, twin plate clutch. Not sure if either one is used on the 5 speed (?)

IIRC, changing a V11 single plate to the aftermarket (5 speed) RAM uses the existing V11 input hub already mated for the single plate clutch (Rosso Mandello, Scura. Tenni).  Changing from a single plate to a twin plate V11 clutch requires changing to the more common gearbox input hub for the twin plate clutch.

[Scud]

^ agree with what Docc said. 

Also, that flywheel doesn't look the same. I don't recall seeing those tabs on a flywheel before. (fotoguzzi's picture above).

[Chuck]

46 minutes ago, Scud said:

^ agree with what Docc said. 

Also, that flywheel doesn't look the same. I don't recall seeing those tabs on a flywheel before. (fotoguzzi's picture above).

I *think* they lightened the Centauro flywheel a bit. I did a lightened flywheel assembly for The Kid many years ago, but apparently the assembly is the only one I took a picture of.

[docc]

This always confused me about the Moto Guzzi “flywheel” until I removed my clutch. For clarity (hopefully), the “toothed ring” visible in that view is for the starter to engage and contains the clutch assembly inside the actual flywheel (partially visible beneath, resting on the desk) which bolts the crank. The part that breaks on the suspect flywheel is around that inner bolt pattern.

[PJPR01]

21 hours ago, footgoose said:

If I'd had MPH that close they would have done my clutch for sure

100%...Mike at MPH swapped out my clutch/flywheel on the Scura...nice not to have to worry about it grenading in the future.  I've got the original in my garage if anyone wants it for an experiment of some sort...pay shipping and it's yours!

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

100%...Mike at MPH swapped out my clutch/flywheel on the Scura...nice not to have to worry about it grenading in the future.  I've got the original in my garage if anyone wants it for an experiment of some sort...pay shipping and it's yours!

Just what does that include, Paul?

[footgoose]

13 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

100%...Mike at MPH swapped out my clutch/flywheel on the Scura...nice not to have to worry about it grenading in the future.  I've got the original in my garage if anyone wants it for an experiment of some sort...pay shipping and it's yours!

what did they replace it with?