OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V or Equivalent (CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?)

[Tomchri]

Marty, thanks for the offer .   Picked up 2  cheap 40Amp, just to have a spare. Now I have some time to find the  yellow Type 23   40Amp, though seems hard.  Back into the brewery.

Cheers Tom 

[docc]

I am seeing the 1.5W coil CIT High Current relays available in the USA (onlinecomponents):

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/cit-relay-and-switch/a11csq12vdc15r-51176058.html#

FWIW, Digikey still shows zero stock on these 1.5W coil relays either in USA or Belgium.

(I have been running the CIT 1.2W coil in the stressed positions of my Sport with no issues.)

[PeterT]

I've had my share of problems with the starter motor but I've never had any problems with my micro relays.  That's not to say that the starter contactor may not draw a short-term current that could cause problems, it's just not something I've experienced (yet).  However, I have experienced exactly the same symptoms; lights dim when starter button pressed and you hear the click of the starter contactor but it doesn't crank, or ties to so weakly that you know it's not going to start.  You try again and sometimes it may work, sometimes not.  The cause in my case (and this is the reason I thought I'd add to the wisdom already given) was that the crimped (female) blade that pushes onto the starter motor contactor, was not particularly strong/grippy and had a bit of corrosion in it.  Sorting this out cured the problem.   Effectively insufficient current could be drawn by the contactor coil to pull in the starter contacts strongly enough, these then added extra resistance to the starter motor circuit and the motor cranked weakly or not at all. 

Perhaps it was this that caused the actual starter motor contacts to arc and pit, because soon after this I had the same thing again, but this time diagnosed that it was these main contacts that take up to 500A peak and typically interrupt the 120- 150A d.c. cranking current in an inductive circuit.  This in itself is something that you might expect to cause degradation over time.  Anyway, having checked that it wasn't the same thing again and diagnosed that the actual main contacts were adding abnormal contact resistance, I fitted a new starter and this solved the problem.  So my contribution in all this talk of getting better relays (and of course the relay could also cause a weak pull-in of the starter motor contactor relay) is to make sure you have checked these other two causes.

[stewgnu]

6 hours ago, PeterT said:

I've had my share of problems with the starter motor but I've never had any problems with my micro relays.  That's not to say that the starter contactor may not draw a short-term current that could cause problems, it's just not something I've experienced (yet).  However, I have experienced exactly the same symptoms; lights dim when starter button pressed and you hear the click of the starter contactor but it doesn't crank, or ties to so weakly that you know it's not going to start.  You try again and sometimes it may work, sometimes not.  The cause in my case (and this is the reason I thought I'd add to the wisdom already given) was that the crimped (female) blade that pushes onto the starter motor contactor, was not particularly strong/grippy and had a bit of corrosion in it.  Sorting this out cured the problem.   Effectively insufficient current could be drawn by the contactor coil to pull in the starter contacts strongly enough, these then added extra resistance to the starter motor circuit and the motor cranked weakly or not at all. 

Perhaps it was this that caused the actual starter motor contacts to arc and pit, because soon after this I had the same thing again, but this time diagnosed that it was these main contacts that take up to 500A peak and typically interrupt the 120- 150A d.c. cranking current in an inductive circuit.  This in itself is something that you might expect to cause degradation over time.  Anyway, having checked that it wasn't the same thing again and diagnosed that the actual main contacts were adding abnormal contact resistance, I fitted a new starter and this solved the problem.  So my contribution in all this talk of getting better relays (and of course the relay could also cause a weak pull-in of the starter motor contactor relay) is to make sure you have checked these other two causes.

there’s one, maybe two, weak-points in the system

[Lucky Phil]

Some generally interesting relay info.

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html

 

Ciao

[Chris Wilson]

Wonderful link Phil, I learned a lot.

Cheers.

[Chris Wilson]

I have had another starter motor installed also with the typical click no start issue arising.

Diagnosed by the local Harely electrician as a worn leading brush in the starter itself.

Chris.

[LowRyter]

Whenever I see this thread I think of omicron now. 

In fact one my Guzzi buddies asked me about relays I could only mention "Pyro Dan" and "omicron".

[docc]

For better or for worse we have moved on the the CIT. I've been running their 1.2 watt coil versions with success in critical positions.

Oh-My-RONs are so yesterday already . . .

[LowRyter]

CIT?   

[docc]

10 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

CIT?   

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/cit-relay-and-switch/a11csq12vdc15r-51176058.html#

Looks like the more powerful CIT, 1.5 watt coil, relay is available now in the USA. Six bucks each.

Where else in the world can you solve so many serious problems for thirty dollars US?

[Rolf Halvorsen]

What about the maximum switching current of 30A?

I think the Omron had 40A.

 

Rolf

[Chris Wilson]

7 hours ago, docc said:

 

Where else in the world can you solve so many serious problems for thirty dollars US?

Any third world country?

[p6x]

@PeterT

I do not wish to go off topic here, there are other threads for the starting issues.

But I (still) experience the problem you described in your post. No starter cranking on COLD starts. You can hear the relay working, the lights dim; several attempts will eventually get to crank.

Once the first successful crank has happened, the starter will crank at each solicitation. The crank is strong and regular; I am not suspecting a battery or connection problem. This issue only happens when it is cold. I mean low temperatures. It may have been luck, but I got the bike in April 2021, and never experienced the no crank before a cold day in Texas.

This issue, I have experienced so many times in the 1970's with my cars. Starter solenoid drawing current but not turning to engage onto the toothed wheel/crown.

A bit of tapping on the culprit would usually solve the problem.

I am going to post of video of the problem under the appropriate thread.

I like the name of the city you live in....

[docc]

3 hours ago, Rolf Halvorsen said:

What about the maximum switching current of 30A?

I think the Omron had 40A.

 

Rolf

Yes, Rolf, the OMRON G8HE was rated higher, but has become largely No Longer Available. The coil rating on the OMRON was also higher and the resistor mounted in a position to stay cooler, yet these CIT appear to be the best high current micro-ISO relay commonly available at this time.