OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V or Equivalent (CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?)

[Rolf Halvorsen]

Ok. I will buy 100 today. "Nice to have" - to sell to my Guzzi friends when the spring comes.

OMRON: I have bought 100 - 5 Pins and 100 4-Pins earlier. All of the 5-pins are sold. 

The 5-pins are easier to use since they can be used in all positions, so you do not need to think if you need to change a relay "on the road". Just switch with one of the other relays.

PS: I have made myself a small print which I keep on board - telling which relay / which function. If I get an electrican problem "on the road" - then I know which relay I can take out.

Rolf

[LowRyter]

Adhering to the advice per this thread, I can assume that every rider has an assortment of take-off relays as spares in their tankbags.   

[Speedfrog]

6 hours ago, docc said:

Yes, Rolf, the OMRON G8HE was rated higher, but has become largely No Longer Available. The coil rating on the OMRON was also higher and the resistor mounted in a position to stay cooler, yet these CIT appear to be the best high current micro-ISO relay commonly available at this time.

You can still get the OMRON G8HE from the ebay vendor I got mine from.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162517009426

Check my post from back in December.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19755-best-relay/page/14/

[docc]

Thanks for posting that link, again, @Speedfrog! Since eBay sellers care notoriously short-lived, I am hoping the CIT that @p6x discovered remain a reliable and commonly available solution. 
 

That said, definitely run those G8HE while you can get them.

[Lucky Phil]

On 1/13/2022 at 8:35 AM, docc said:

Thanks for posting that link, again, @Speedfrog! Since eBay sellers care notoriously short-lived, I am hoping the CIT that @p6x discovered remain a reliable and commonly available solution. 
 

That said, definitely run those G8HE while you can get them.

Hey docc your opinion on this?

https://www.jaycar.us/spdt-30a-horn-relay-12v/p/SY4046

https://www.jaycar.us/medias/sys_master/images/images/9590139322398/SY4046-dataSheetMain.pdf

 

Ciao

[docc]

3 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Hey docc your opinion on this?

https://www.jaycar.us/spdt-30a-horn-relay-12v/p/SY4046

https://www.jaycar.us/medias/sys_master/images/images/9590139322398/SY4046-dataSheetMain.pdf

 

Ciao

At first review, a slight discrepancy between the rating printed on the case (NO:30A/NC:25A) and the data sheet (NO:30A/NC:20A).  Now, twenty amps across the NC contacts is really fine even for an early V11 where the #1/Starter relay is running the current to the #2/Headlight Relay (that is fed from a 15 amp fuse). Just not okay to expect a NC:10amp relay to survive that duty indefinitely. Now, just a discrepancy, not a deal breaker.

The contact material is a silver alloy, which puts it ahead of the common GEI (copper alloy).

Otherwise, the "data sheet" is a bit short on specification. The coil wattage (which "may be" a measure of coil strength) is not given. Nor is the amperage rating specified between inrush current and continuous current (desirable for our application). This is awfully common to these spec sheets, but it seems the higher the relay quality, the more detailed is the data sheet.

I'm on my 7th set of different relays from making preemptive changes, but I am no electrical expert by any means! Over the course, I have endeavored to learn the terminology and functional nature of relays. I wish the data sheets were standardized!

I have seen and assisted in many V11 relay failures over these many years (and SpineRaids!). My only relay failures involved my last full set of OMRON G8HE (I ran the lower rated G8HN for nine years with no failures). I traced the G8HE failures to a faulty regulator along with a failing stator (failed yellow wire at the strain point) and theorized I must have been getting some horrendous voltage spikes.

 

[Lucky Phil]

I agree with the "short on detail" docc. The RE uses these as well but the ignition coils don't go through a relay so one of the biggest current drawers is isolated from the relays.

Ciao 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yesterday, October 6th 2021, the starter motor did not crank immediately upon pushing the switch. The Neutral and low oil pressure lights dimmed, so the current was drawn, but the starter only kicked in after about one second.

This morning, the same situation happened, but it blew the 15 amps mains fuse.

The battery is fine.

I changed the fuse, and started the bike. Same issue without blowing the fuse. The starter motor did not crank right at the button push. The light intensity showed the current was drawn but the motor did not turn run away. It took about one second.

Could be a sticky starter motor, or a going bad relay.

Unfortunately, the OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V does not seem to be available from a trusted seller. I found some on Amazon or eBay, but the sellers have warnings from "fakeguard".

Anybody has any available for purchase?

LMK

 

 

Please excuse me if someone covered this already in the 7 pages I didn't read closely

p6x, reading your original post it sounds like classic Startus Interruptus, not enough current getting to the starter solenoid. Possibly as the result of a dirty ignition switch, it could also be a relay or relay base resistance but my monies on the ignition switch. Pull it apart and wipe out the old grease replace with fresh Vaseline.

The solenoid needs an inrush of about 30 Amps to goad it into motion so just a tiny amount of resistance and it falls in the 20 - 25 Amp range where it will cause the 15 Amp fuse to blow.

The starter solenoid is designed to draw 50 Amps, its amazing how well it works when it's wired accordingly.

[p6x]

@Kiwi_Roy

Once I get the problem's root cause identified beyond doubt, and I want to thank all those who contributed opinions, I will update the original post with all the information.

Thus, if anyone else faces a similar problem, they will be able to get all the information by reading a single post.

[docc]

3 hours ago, p6x said:

@Kiwi_Roy

Once I get the problem's root cause identified beyond doubt, and I want to thank all those who contributed opinions, I will update the original post with all the information.

Thus, if anyone else faces a similar problem, they will be able to get all the information by reading a single post.

As this thread evolved to contribute to our relay sourcing, I propose the "answer" to @p6x's starting issue be posted in his "jump start" thread:

 

[guzziart]

Hi,

OK, I've read this thread and the  (Solved!) Had to get a jump start from roadside assistance; starter motor not cranking after a chilly night; intermitent issue?! .   Am I understanding correctly that the general concensus here is to go with the CIT  A11CSQ12VDC1.5R relay since the Omron G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 is no longer available??!!  If the answer is yes, please disregard the following.

I guess my corn-fusion is whether or not someone has actually ran the  A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?  And, it can be used in any/all  of the relay bases.  Does the A11CSQ12VDC1.5R have a 1.2w, 1.5w or 1.7w coil?....Does the coil wattage matter?  I apologize if you've answered this before...several times.

Thanks,

Art

[docc]

3 hours ago, guzziart said:

Hi,

OK, I've read this thread and the  (Solved!) Had to get a jump start from roadside assistance; starter motor not cranking after a chilly night; intermitent issue?! .   Am I understanding correctly that the general concensus here is to go with the CIT  A11CSQ12VDC1.5R relay since the Omron G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 is no longer available??!!  If the answer is yes, please disregard the following.

I guess my corn-fusion is whether or not someone has actually ran the  A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?  And, it can be used in any/all  of the relay bases.  Does the A11CSQ12VDC1.5R have a 1.2w, 1.5w or 1.7w coil?....Does the coil wattage matter?  I apologize if you've answered this before...several times.

Thanks,

Art

I've been running the 1.2 watt coil CIT about seven months/ 1800 miles/ 3.000 km with no issues. Yes, these are the best specification next to the OMRON G8HE. You can run the same unit in all positions and even for the additional Kiwi_Roy/6th Relay for the starter on the later V11.

Whether the coil wattage difference is significant remains unanswered. It certainly seems worth choosing the higher power coil if available. IIRC, the High Current OMRON G8HE coil is 1.8 watts.

[guzziart]

Thanks Docc!

It looks like Digi-Key has stock, they're $2.55 each....I think I'll pull the trigger....I'll buy 5.

Art

[Lucky Phil]

25 minutes ago, guzziart said:

Thanks Docc!

It looks like Digi-Key has stock, they're $2.55 each....I think I'll pull the trigger.

Art

As a general comment and not aimed at you specifically I can't tell you how all much I lament this expression. Isn't there enough actual "trigger pulling" in the world these days not the least in the States.

Ciao

[p6x]

I think our languages are full of these idioms that we use without second thoughts.

"Pulling the trigger" does not exist in my language. Nor does "shoot", you know, "can I ask you something? shoot!"