Urg- starting issue

[Kiwi_Roy]

7 hours ago, Weegie said:

@docc can the V11 suffer starter interuptus?

Just wondering, seems a common problem on other models especially if the battery isn't quite up to snuff

Startus Interuptus (solenoid clicking without turning) happens when the wiring cannot deliver enough current to the solenoids 2 coils so its not able to pull the gear into place. (the slow starter rotation is something else altogether as you have discovered)

The early VIIs were wired with the battery going direct to the start relay so they had no problem delivering 50 Amps to the solenoid.

Later bikes routed the start relay through the ignition switch, you are lucky to get 30 Amps through that wimpy device that's why it needs cleaning to make sure it can deliver maximum current. At 30 Amps it's only working at about 50%.

The starter manufacturer never intended it to be wired that way, they want the solenoid current as high as possible, I sometimes wonder if the factory know how the solenoid works. For example try to find a factory drawing that shows two coils. Just about every other Guzzi model is also wired wrong, I see my 76 Convert has been corrected at some stage.

Note this high current is only for a split second, just while the solenoid is moving, once the main contact closes the second coil is switched out and the coil current drops to ~ 10 Amps

[stewgnu]

Yes I didn’t have a dedicated charger for my odyssey, so ill grab one at the earliest opportunity.

I checked the ignition switch and all the wiring looked fine.

I’ve managed to acquire loads of spare relays but none are the high current badgers- i recall searching for some but they weren’t available in the uk.

When you mention adding a relay, where would that be?

[stewgnu]

4 hours ago, Kiwi_Roy said:

Startus Interuptus (solenoid clicking without turning) happens when the wiring cannot deliver enough current to the solenoids 2 coils so its not able to pull the gear into place. (the slow starter rotation is something else altogether as you have discovered)

The early VIIs were wired with the battery going direct to the start relay so they had no problem delivering 50 Amps to the solenoid.

Later bikes routed the start relay through the ignition switch, you are lucky to get 30 Amps through that wimpy device that's why it needs cleaning to make sure it can deliver maximum current. At 30 Amps it's only working at about 50%.

The starter manufacturer never intended it to be wired that way, they want the solenoid current as high as possible, I sometimes wonder if the factory know how the solenoid works. For example try to find a factory drawing that shows two coils. Just about every other Guzzi model is also wired wrong, I see my 76 Convert has been corrected at some stage.

Note this high current is only for a split second, just while the solenoid is moving, once the main contact closes the second coil is switched out and the coil current drops to ~ 10 Amps

Thanks Roy (sorry for going over all this well-worn ground!  I ran my ballabio for years with no issues-she always cranked good + strong but the current machine is proving to be less reliable).

When you say to clean the ignition switch is that more involved than squirting a shot of wd down the slot? 

So can i set a direct feed into the system as per this video:

 

[Chuck]

Quote

When you say to clean the ignition switch is that more involved than squirting a shot of wd down the slot? 

Yeah, you have to take it apart, clean out the old grease that is hardening and keeping the contacts from er.. making contact. Wire brush them, apply fresh Vaseline, and reassemble. 15 minute job.

[stewgnu]

On 11/11/2021 at 7:27 PM, docc said:

Take a multi meter to the battery after it has been sitting for a few hours. If it's an AGM (especially the Odyssey PC545), voltage below 12.65 (~85%) should be cause to "condition" the battery (charge to 14.7v [15.0 volts max] with at least 6 amps).  Don't expect a weak "trickle charger to bring it up, especially if the static voltage is below 12.5.

Also, are you using a reliable High Current relay?

Are the higher current relays recommended for all points?  I’m aware that the fuel relay does get very warm, but is the starter, and other relays, likely to be of benefit?

[docc]

39 minutes ago, stewgnu said:

Are the higher current relays recommended for all points?  I’m aware that the fuel relay does get very warm, but is the starter, and other relays, likely to be of benefit?

Early Sport and Rosso Mandello very definitely benefit from a High Current relay in Position #1 (Start) as well as Position #5 (Fuel/Ignition). Yet, there is some wisdom in running the same High Current 5-pin relays in all positions where they will all run cooler, last longer, and be available as ready spares to swap if needed.

Presently, the most available high current relay was discovered by @p6x from CIT Relay and Switch, available from various suppliers:

 

[stewgnu]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:18 PM, Chuck said:

Yeah, you have to take it apart, clean out the old grease that is hardening and keeping the contacts from er.. making contact. Wire brush them, apply fresh Vaseline, and reassemble. 15 minute job.

I’d pay money to see anyone do that in 15 minutes 

[Kiwi_Roy]

1 hour ago, stewgnu said:

I’d pay money to see anyone do that in 15 minutes 

I'm slowing down with age, probably take me 20

Remove the two Phillips screws that hold the switch onto the lock

Tilt out the white contact plate by releasing the odd clip

Wipe off the old grease with a shop towel

Add fresh Vaseline

Replace the contact plate

Screw it back on

While you are there fasten the wires where they come out the back cover so they don't flex at the solder joints and snap off.

You should disconnect the battery Negative but I never do.

[stewgnu]

Nice tip about de-stressing the solder joints Roy- ta.  They look good so will try to keep em that way.

Those ignition switch clips are fun if you are evolutionarily retarded with only two hands 😀

I had various bits removed earlier, ig switch, tank, airbox, breather hose, speedo cable, removed the damn hotgrips wiring that’s been bugging me for a time:  couldn’t identify exactly where my oil leak was coming from, but i replaced the breather hose anyway… possibly the oil ‘y’ hose from the pots, but could be mistaken. Quite a puddle of nastiness in the airbox mind.

Someone’s done a lot of pissing about with the wiring, and not in a nice way 😠

The middle grease nip snapped off on the drive shaft, which was ace, any tips for removing the leftover thread would be appreciated as it’s almost blind.

This should be in ‘wot i did to my v11 today’

[docc]

There is enough of a hole on the broken Zerk to tap in an “EZ-Out” type bolt extractor and apply heat then a little impact to remove the leftover?

[stewgnu]

19 minutes ago, docc said:

There is enough of a hole on the broken Zerk to tap in an “EZ-Out” type bolt extractor and apply heat then a little impact to remove the leftover?

I had a quick bash with an extractor but as there isn’t any depth it just chewed it out

[stewgnu]

But i’ll try again, heating with a torch, tomo evening

[stewgnu]

well i checked the ignition switch and it isn’t the problem as far as i can tell.

still getting intermittent cranking.

[Tomchri]

And the kill switch is nice and clean.

 Cheers Tom.

[stewgnu]

15 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

And the kill switch is nice and clean.

 Cheers Tom.

kill switch functions as it should yar