(Solved!) Had to get a jump start from roadside assistance; starter motor not cranking after a chilly night; intermitent issue?!

[Tomchri]

Quite sure many of the members here say, yes that must be it. I woud take ALL electric connections on the bike apart for tlc, and follow Roys route with an extra relay, sorry to mention it again, but it realy makes sense. 

Cheers Tom.

[p6x]

I got the Le Mans back yesterday, and the suggested solution preconized by the community (Doc/MartyNZ/Kiwi-Roy, sorry if I missed anybody) has been implemented.

I will report back later and document the modification to those that may want to implement the fix.

I am leaving for Alaska, (not on the V11 unfortunately).

I will catch you on my way back.

[p6x]

A quick update, as I have not had time to feed-back on the details of the modification installed on my Le Mans.

The starter motor now cranks immediately upon depressing the start button. Even after long lay away, and cold morning starts like today.

The additional relay with direct feed to the solenoid was the correct modification as suggested by the panel.

Relegating the key switch to circuit enabler as it should has always been.

 

[stewgnu]

45 minutes ago, p6x said:

A quick update, as I have not had time to feed-back on the details of the modification installed on my Le Mans.

The starter motor now cranks immediately upon depressing the start button. Even after long lay away, and cold morning starts like today.

The additional relay with direct feed to the solenoid was the correct modification as suggested by the panel.

Relegating the key switch to circuit enabler as it should has always been.

 

I’ve not had a problem since installing a Roy Relay.  

Anyone else still having starter issues?

[p6x]

I have posted a picture of the new relay, the Roy?:

 

[Tomchri]

Looks very good, but the other relays, no marking, no Omrons ? 

Side note, wondering how I coud tempt you to join the hunt for rubber boot for the rear master cylinder  .

Cheers Tom.

[docc]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

I have posted a picture of the new relay, the Roy?:

 

I'm not sure what the umarked relays are in that V11 of @p6x, nor the marked front Start Relay. Last I looked the CIT are the best available V11 option when the OMRON G8HE is not available.

The "Roy Relay" that @stewgnu speaks of is the addition of a dedicated start relay in the later V11 wiring harness that, otherwise, overburdens the Ignition Switch and leads to classic Startus Interuptus.

IIRC, p6x also had this additional relay installed. First I have heard it called the "Roy Relay", but our stwegnu is a clever one, yes?  

[p6x]

31 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

Looks very good, but the other relays, no marking, no Omrons ? 

Side note, wondering how I coud tempt you to join the hunt for rubber boot for the rear master cylinder  .

Cheers Tom.

Tom,

The "unmarked" relays came with the motorbike. I took some pictures of them when the "stock relays are failure prone" topic came about;

Here they are for your viewing pleasure:

I have purchased the Omron from Ebay too. I carry one with me as a spare, just in case.

 

[p6x]

10 minutes ago, docc said:

I'm not sure what the umarked relays are in that V11 of @p6x, nor the marked front Start Relay. Last I looked the CIT are the best available V11 option when the OMRON G8HE is not available.

The "Roy Relay" that @stewgnu speaks of is the addition of a dedicated start relay in the later V11 wiring harness that, otherwise, overburdens the Ignition Switch and leads to classic Startus Interuptus.

IIRC, p6x also had this additional relay installed. First I have heard it called the "Roy Relay", but our stwegnu is a clever one, yes?  

@docc remember? we had that thread:

-Looking for replacement relays for the V11?

The OMRON is no longer manufactured, so we looked for the best next candidate. I purchased 5 Omron from a guy on Ebay.

As you can see in the picture above, the new relay is exactly that: the "Roy Relay"; my V11 now starts without any hesitation. The ignition switch no longer carries the load to the solenoid. It now actuates the "Roy" relay. This is how the circuit should have been designed from the get go.

I don't know if we should call it the "Roy" relay, but if I am correct, it is in honor of the forum member who explained why the delayed cranking happened.

He provided two ways of curing the problem: clean the ignition switch; install an extra relay and have it carry the load instead of the ignition switch.

In my case, both were carried out. The ignition switch was taken apart, cleaned, greased and reinstalled. The extra relay was added. I have now six which is fine by me. Six is a good number.

 

[docc]

Okay, I see now that your marked relay is the added "Roy Relay" to the standard five.

I am surprised that you have not replaced all of your trash relays with the stellar OMRON G8HE that you are fortunate to have in hand.  My advice, after seeing so many compromised and disabled V11, is to run the most reliable relay and keep the lesser relays as spares (mostly for your buddies who didn't get the memo ) . . .

[docc]

I saw this concept summed up nicely by one our treasured members:

"It's wiser to plan for the ride than plan for maintenance."  -  @Pressureangle April 2022

[p6x]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Okay, I see now that your marked relay is the added "Roy Relay" to the standard five.

I am surprised that you have not replaced all of your trash relays with the stellar OMRON G8HE that you are fortunate to have in hand.  My advice, after seeing so many compromised and disabled V11, is to run the most reliable relay and keep the lesser relays as spares (mostly for your buddies who didn't get the memo ) . . .

Well, I carry Omron with me. And you know the motto: if it ain't broken...

 

[p6x]

21 minutes ago, docc said:

I saw this concept summed up nicely by one our treasured members:

"It's wiser to plan for the ride than plan for maintenance."  -  @Pressureangle April 2022

I am not certain I agree with the statement. I love to not plan for rides; I used to jump on my bike and go without any specific destination. However I have always planned my maintenance.

[docc]

I would not able to sleep knowing that mySport had the worst-known relays (Tyco) poked into her sockets.

If you insist on running known substandard relays, familiarize yourself with the myriad manifestations of relay failure modes.

But why? 

[po18guy]

8 hours ago, docc said:

The "Roy Relay" that @stewgnu speaks of is the addition of a dedicated start relay in the later V11 wiring harness that, otherwise, overburdens the Ignition Switch and leads to classic Startus Interuptus.

Do we know what "later" refers to regarding model years?