Leaky rear end

[BillyB]

Heat may also help free up that nut.

[andy york]

guzziart.... why do you want to pull the pinion assembly out? Is it leaking from there?

I will check in the morn ...I think I have what you need to remove this. 

I would not use heat because of the 0-ring and seal that are just behind it 

[andy york]

As Phil wrote..."drift and a hammer". From the factory the book says says torque to 90 Nm.

If you are going to try and cut something up it needs to be a 60mm socket.

Seems I do not have the tool for that ring nut.

[MartyNZ]

11 hours ago, guzziart said:

Hi,

While we're on the rear drive....is there anyone manufacturing or have available a spanner socket for the ringnut (#18) that retains the pinion assembly?  I'm at a point where I've got a ringnut on order for the purpose of making my own spanner.   I'd prefer to buy one already made since my machine shop consists of a cut-off wheel & Dremel tool.  

Art

I made a ring-nut socket from a 50mm hex socket. 

But first, channeling my Father "if it isn't broken, don't fix it". I think you should only remove the pinion if you must change a leaky seal on the pinion shaft.

Anyway, you would need to remove the #13 nut, as the seal is behind it. 

I used a hot air gun and heated the housing around the pinion bearing to 100°C. Nut #18 undoes easily then, and a gentle biff with a slide hammer and the pinion assembly will pull out. 100°C is safe for the seals and O-rings, but don't get much above 120ish°C. If you don't have a IR heat sensor, then a temp where you can touch the housing but can't hold your hand on it for a second is about right.

Nut #13 is staked into a slot, and is tight. I drilled and split the old nut, but then of course I needed a new nut... and a shaped wood set of vice jaws to grip the pinion gear to tighten it back up. Lots of swarf spiraled off the outer end of the nut as I tightened it, so good cleaning is needed.   

[guzziart]

Hi,

PhillipLarsen & BillyB - Thanks for the feedback and advice.

Andy York – The pinion seal didn’t appear to have had a leak but while the ring gear is out of the unit I’d like to replace the pinion seals too.  And, I did feel a slight amount of pinion play like something going on in the lower pinion bearing area.  However, it is an extremely low mileage unit.  I did read somewhere that some of the pinions were not fully seated into the drive housing when originally assembled, the result was some endplay or slop but not enough to cause catastrophic failure.

MartyNZ – Thanks for the info & pics…big help!  I totally forgot about heat.  The thing was in the oven so I could get the bearing race to drop out in order to replace the outside seal….I should have tried hammering away at the ringnut at the same time…duh.

Thanks,

            Art

[andy york]

Many more knowledgable folks on here but the only way I have found to remove "the nut"

is pull the drive shaft - mount the rear wheel with the rear drive and axle....then run a 2x4 

through the spokes of the wheel so that it rests on the top or bottom of the swing arm

depending on loosening or tightening. I will have to look it up again, I think that nut needs to 

torque to like 180 nm. Whatever I did wrong, the brake was not enough to hold the wheel

by myself while trying to loosen it at the same time.

I think there are shims on shaft that goes in the tiny bearing at the back of the pinion .....the front

being the end with the drive shaft.

 

[PhillipLarsen]

When replacing the pinion seal, I went to a bearing house and ordered a double lipped seal (high quality) that will not react to oils and solvents. 

They are not expensive and readily available, just took a couple days to get the exact size. Less chance for leak in future.

Mine was leaking at the pinion seal and the evidence was a slight film of oil coming off the drive shaft area and onto the right edge of the tire and rim.

After replaced no further leaks. I cleaned up the entire rear end, lubed everything, splines on driveshaft, grease nipples on drive shaft, cleaned large seal on rear drive from outside, greased everything on reassembly. Thousand of Kilometers ago and oil tight.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, PhillipLarsen said:

When replacing the pinion seal, I went to a bearing house and ordered a double lipped seal (high quality) that will not react to oils and solvents. 

They are not expensive and readily available, just took a couple days to get the exact size. Less chance for leak in future.

Mine was leaking at the pinion seal and the evidence was a slight film of oil coming off the drive shaft area and onto the right edge of the tire and rim.

After replaced no further leaks. I cleaned up the entire rear end, lubed everything, splines on driveshaft, grease nipples on drive shaft, cleaned large seal on rear drive from outside, greased everything on reassembly. Thousand of Kilometers ago and oil tight.

I'd be surprised if the original wasn't a double lipped seal. A double lipped seal doesn't seal oil any better than a single lipped seal. The secondary lip is only a dust excluder and in the main doesn't contact the running surface. What is important with these seals in the bevel box, gearbox and engine is to use either OEM seals or a unidirectional seal not universal seals from a bearing shop. As with automotive seals like crank and camshaft seals on automotive engines that are difficult to access these seals are of the unidirectional type. The bearing shop seals are usually bidirectional or universal seals. It makes a difference in the long term. I believe I've covered this topic before a while back.

Ciao    

[PhillipLarsen]

Yes, I agree with Lucky Phil.

Unfortunately the original unidirectional seal (only about 10,000 km on the bike) did not have a double lip seal (dust excluder second lip).

I was very surprised as well.

It looked like the issue causing the leak was all the dust and grime in the seal / drive shaft area as it is in an area next to the tire/wheel with high exposure to road dust and grime, especially here where the secondary roads are often contaminated with lots of dust and debris from logging truck, farm vehicles, etc. The seal had no visible damage, even when examined under 15X magnification. Given all the dirt in the drive shaft area, I was even thinking it would be beneficial if there was some way to enclose the area, but with the new seal decided to try it to see if it eliminates the contamination problem.

The double lipped seal I obtained is also a unidirectional with the dust excluder second lip. The reason I had to wait a couple days for it was because I wanted the same uni directional seal, but with second lip in a high quality material, and in the exact size, which they did not have on the shelf but were able to bring in.

 

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, PhillipLarsen said:

Yes, I agree with Lucky Phil.

Unfortunately the original unidirectional seal (only about 10,000 km on the bike) did not have a double lip seal (dust excluder second lip).

I was very surprised as well.

It looked like the issue causing the leak was all the dust and grime in the seal / drive shaft area as it is in an area next to the tire/wheel with high exposure to road dust and grime, especially here where the secondary roads are often contaminated with lots of dust and debris from logging truck, farm vehicles, etc. The seal had no visible damage, even when examined under 15X magnification. Given all the dirt in the drive shaft area, I was even thinking it would be beneficial if there was some way to enclose the area, but with the new seal decided to try it to see if it eliminates the contamination problem.

The double lipped seal I obtained is also a unidirectional with the dust excluder second lip. The reason I had to wait a couple days for it was because I wanted the same uni directional seal, but with second lip in a high quality material, and in the exact size, which they did not have on the shelf but were able to bring in.

 

Surprising! They don't often leak from here either.

Ciao

[guzziart]

Hi,

Andy, PL & LP...thanks for your thoughts and experiences, it's appreciated!

Art