Anybody know which ports on the broad sump to the cooler is which?

[Weegie]

Time for another experiment in oil cooling on the Hi Cam

Despite trawling around for a suitable oil cooler that would meet my needs and is bigger than the current small Setrab unit I have installed (way too small for my liking), I cannot find a larger unit that'll fit, due to the width between the headers, rough measurement around 280mm, perhaps a little less at the bends. A lot of coolers are similar dimensions, looking at Mocal and Setrab they're range is virtually identical. Frustrating because I'm beat by by perhaps 5mm with several options.

In desperation to lower the oil temperature a litte more, from 105-110C running in clear air. I'm thinking of trying to mount the OEM cooler in series with the Setrab. It may be that the additional restrictions through the hoses and second cooler make things worse pressure wise and I don't gain anything, but thought it would be worth a try.

I was wondering which port from the broadsump is feed and which is return from the cooler, same setup on the V11 and the Sporti. Don't think it makes any difference AFAIK, but it would be nice to know which cooler I'm feeding first.

[docc]

According to the Parts Catalog for the 1999-2001 V11, the oil feed to the cooler is from the outboard (most right side) port/hose.

[Tomchri]

Seeing you want the best for your bikes  ,  1 custom made cooler with just the needed housing woudn't be to hard in the UK, I woud think,

Cheers Tom.

[billgreenman1]

What about a bigger sump?

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, billgreenman1 said:

What about a bigger sump?

It only delays the oil temp issue.

Ciao

[Weegie]

6 hours ago, billgreenman1 said:

What about a bigger sump?

Part of the issue is in all likliehood down to the fairing, the bike is a Magni Australia and it's fully faired, not the best choice IMHO for the HiCam especially with a C kit as it produces prodigious amounts of heat, so placing a fairing around it, which reduces the effectivness of cylinder and sump cooling, wasn't a particularly great design choice (but looks good).

I reckon a larger sump would help, more surface area would allow more airflow and Vee sumps seem to be effective on Guzzi engines. It also opens another can of worms though, losing the broadsump and internals etc: etc:

Phil is a far better engineer than me, so there's probably something I haven't thought of, besides, it's academic, there isn't any room.

I've run both the OEM cooler and the small Setrab currently mounted, seperately and the results were about the same. The Setrab is a little better at cooling, although smaller than the OEM. Running them in parallel wouldn't work as the oil just takes the line of least resistance so the OEM cooler wouldn't do much (larger Delta P across the OEM), therefore it would have to be series.

The question is how effective that would be at reducing oil temp and would any gains simply be offset by increased pressure losses, I drop the temp a bit which raises oil pressure but the pipe/cooler losses offset the gains or make things worse (I could also change oil grades from the present 15/50 to a 10/60 oil)

It shouldn't be beyond my limited intellect to pipe this, though it won't be a 5 minute job, as space is at a premium. I can also try it with and without the bellypan.

@Tomchri yes custom coolers are available, pricey but I could affford it. Until I've an idea of what works and what doesn't I'd rather not shell out what may be a considerable amount for a custom design until I've at least some idea that it might work. The Setrab is most likely better (despite its smaller size) as it runs larger, straighter piping and is well designed in comparison to the OEM. That was my reason for choosing it and why ideally I'd prefer to stay with a well established manufacturer of coolers i.e Setrab or Mocal.

Thank you all for your suggestions it's appreciated

John

[Chris Wilson]

Could you mount a larger oil cooler vertically and plumb from the side?

[andy york]

I think a test run without the bodywork is in order. Then you you would have a reference as to what the enclosed bodywork 

is doing to your temps. If the temps are greatly reduced then you would know what the problem is ...sort of.

If there is no significant change or ....say less than 5 or 10 degree, I would start looking at how to mount a bigger cooler.

Setrab makes very good coolers and even getting a slightly larger one could make the difference.

Or .....sell me the Daytona !!!!!  That is one Beautiful Motorcycle !!!!

 

[Weegie]

@andy york I agree Phil has also repeated this several times. So come the summer (long way away) I'll remove the fairing and take it out on a short run,without the bodywork it looks very odd.

Even if I did find that it made a difference there isn't much I could do. Besides I've been pretty much through most of the engine a while back and found nothing, including checking the valve timing with dial gauges. Phil put me onto the leaky PRV (which Chuck had also pointed out) and then the substitution of a Griso spring into the PRV. That was a God send and dramatically improved the pressure. However it still runs toasty, I'm not the only HiCam owner with this malady, seen quite a few complaints on the COG (Centauro Owner's Group) forum. Some engines run hot and some don't and I got no clue why.

The idea of using 2 coolers though, if to any degree sucessful, would give me a modification that would work, or at a minimum, knowledge that increasing oil cooler volume would reduce temps and some idea of where to go next.

It runs Ok in clear air at the moment above 40mph, I just would prefer if I could lower oil temp 5 or 10 degrees, the temp at the heads and exhaust valves I'm probably better off not knowing. Using the 15/50 and the 105-110C oil temp I can still maintain approx 60psi pressure, which is below the max but respectable enough to stop any serious engine damage (I hope).

Feels more like a track than a road bike, as long as it's going quick it's a happy engine, but slow down and it turns ugly fast.

It's a complete hoot on the open road, best Guzzi I've ridden and I love it, come back from a ride grinning from ear to ear.

[Chris Wilson]

". Running them in parallel wouldn't work."

So run them in series.

Use a thermostatically controlled fan?

[Chris Wilson]

Something like this?

[Weegie]

Thanks @Chris Wilson

I'll look into your ideas, you're thinking outside the box. Not sure yet if there is room inside the fairing, but even if not, mounting coolers vertically could well provide me other options so it's appreciated

Could you give me a link for that cooler, I'm intrigued.

John

[Chris Wilson]

https://jagg.com/products/vertical-fan-10row

Fan-assisted Vertical 10-row Oil Cooler System

PART # 751-FP2600

                                                    Default Title - $ 575.00 USD                                              

It's just a thought, but if your air cooled engine is not cooled enough by air flow restrictions then artificially boost it.

I think that in your case a fan is a must as it assists what finnage you already have on the engine as well as it only applies itself above certain temps.

Chris.

[bbolesaz]

Just an idea - The fans that cool PC cases are 12V DC and come in various sizes.  Who needs a thermostatic switch, either hard wire it or put a simple handlebar switch.

[Tomchri]

Weegie,   back and forth here. What a bike you have  going fast enough seems to solve all your problems .    And a 59 Pan head in Sahara, wild quess, woundt ' think you want to know the pressure.   Great bikes .

 Cheers Tom.