Anybody know which ports on the broad sump to the cooler is which?

[Skeeve]

On 12/3/2021 at 2:11 AM, Weegie said:

Part of the issue is in all likliehood down to the fairing, the bike is a Magni Australia and it's fully faired, not the best choice IMHO for the HiCam especially with a C kit as it produces prodigious amounts of heat, so placing a fairing around it, which reduces the effectivness of cylinder and sump cooling, wasn't a particularly great design choice (but looks good).

 

The headlight is right where the oil cooler needs to be. The ram air ports to the airbox never did anything worth much until you're tapped out in top gear, according to reports, so what about using them & rerouting the airflow thru the cooler? Don't forget ducting to guide the outflow to a low pressure area, or it will all just hang around underneath the fairing sharing the heat around (which would be great when riding in cold weather, but I didn't think you got much of that in Oz?)

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, Skeeve said:

The headlight is right where the oil cooler needs to be. The ram air ports to the airbox never did anything worth much until you're tapped out in top gear, according to reports, so what about using them & rerouting the airflow thru the cooler? Don't forget ducting to guide the outflow to a low pressure area, or it will all just hang around underneath the fairing sharing the heat around (which would be great when riding in cold weather, but I didn't think you got much of that in Oz?)

He lives in Scotland, lol, so he's got real engine heat related problems. If he was riding it in Perth or a Melbourne summer it would be a molten pool of aluminium in a side street somewhere. Sorry John:)

  

Ciao

[Weegie]

@Skeeve & @Lucky Phil I'm going to try to settle that debate come the summer by running the bike sans fairing and determine what temps are like.

The problem with the Australia 98 bikes is only 50 or so were built and I'm willing to wager 49 of them sit in air conditioned garages or front rooms, never turning a wheel. The 93 (I think) bikes, are different, these first iteration machines were cooking (sorry) Daytonas and from my own limited experience the early Daytonas and even B kitted bikes, don't suffer from the same amount of heat rejection issues. The 93 series bikes actually have a different frame although on initial glance they appear identical, but that's an aside.

It's a good idea Skeeve but I wouldn't think it would contribute much, however every little bit would help. Right now the bike has a smaller Setrab cooler installed but with dash 8 hose and full flow fittings. The cooler is mounted just above the alternator and gives slightly better temperatures in free air than the OEM which was installed below the alternator. When I say better temps of course I'm only referring to running in free air above 40mph with ambients in the low 20s C.

Part install

The fuel pump was relocated to where the filter was sited originally, as it's too heavy to be supported above the cooler with clips (but I'm going to look at that again) and the filter now sits above the cooler. So far the pump hasn't fried but I've no great faith it won't, hence the desire to relocate it somewhere cooler.

Ideally what I want to do is relocate the coils and the only place I can see is close to the rear wheel underneath the seat to the rear where there's a little space. That would mean a long HT lead run, far from ideal. That dammed HUGE airbox hogs all the space, I can't find anywhere else. Probably the reason Magni put the coils there in the first place............desperation!!!

If I could get rid of some of the shit at the front I could install a larger oil cooler and keep my dash 8 hoses and fittings.

Of course that would do nothing for slow running but with the coils somewhere else, I also might have room for a fan at the rear.

It's either that or series up the OEM which is far from ideal as it's back to dash 6 fittings and banjos, which IMHO is just horrible.

John

[Chris Wilson]

By the looks of that engine, and I know little about it except from looks, it appears that the inner thighs of the Vee are shrouded by the belt covers so does hot air pool behind them leading to such joys as fuel boiling, burning inside trousers, and general stagnant misery?

If so then perhaps a fan may be best placed under the tank to scavenge out that hot air.

Perhaps pulling air from behind the block instead of pushing it from the front would work out easier for you if frontal space is at a premium.

Chris.

[Weegie]

@Chris Wilson, that's very innovative I'd have never have thought of that in the month of Sundays.

You're spot on about the belt covers, what was concieved for a the 4 valve engine was to drive a seperate cam in each head by belts, then a short pushrod/follower onto the rockers, hence the HiCam nomiker. The camshaft was replaced with a "service shaft" running at 1/2 crank speed that in turn drives the belts up to heads.

It's a fantastic engine in so much as it's enormous fun to ride, but the design was rushed and flawed in a lot of ways. Many of the mistakes were addressed with the MGS but Guzzi made that a race bike, tuned it further then placed the cost out of everybody's reach.

IMHO that was mistake I reckon they'd have got a lot more sales from a milder road version, not so focused with less high end components.

[Chris Wilson]

Getting back to the exhaust heat, I class ceramic coatings as 'homeopathy' for engines since, sure, you speed up sound with added heat in the pipe but with all road registered bikes you then slow it down dramatically with the use of a muffler by expanding and cooling the gas.

So the pipe benefits but the system is only as good as it's worst choke point.

The best advice I ever got with retained heat in piped exhaust system is to measure the heat at the tail pipe, if that runs hotter then you have an improvement overall in gas extraction.

I would still consider wrapping at least the header section and measure the difference at the tail and 'feel' the difference whilst onboard.

Chris.

[Weegie]

Thanks Chris

I'll put that on my list of things to try

[MartyNZ]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:39 PM, Tomchri said:

And a 59 Pan head in Sahara...

As Tom suggests, a bike without a temp indicator is normal. You know what your oil temp is and it bothers you. Maybe you actually don't have a problem.

Engine oil needs to get up to 100°C before water condensation evaporates.

Cheap oils can tolerate 150°C without degradation, and Group 3 & 4 PAO/Ester oils handle over 200°C. Some engine oil additives don't work until the engine is up to temp. 

Hot is good

[Weegie]

I am begining to wonder if it's just me being too bloody anal @MartyNZ

Thanks to @Lucky Phil and all his help and advice I have good oil pressure in free air on the move, around 60psi and I've marginally improved the cooling too, although if I could find a larger cooler that would work I'd use it.

There isn't any cause for concern when on the move and going to try a 10/60 to see what happens.

A run without the fairing to compare temp & pressure will at least tell me if the fairing is an issue or not

Final thing I'm considering is a short static run up to appprox 100C sump temp.  Compare sump oil temp on the dipstick and temp readings off Guzzi Diag. That'll show RHS head temp and also a touch probe onto both rocker covers. These can only be done with the bike at standstill, but would help by giving me an idea of the differences between sump, heads and head delta. If they're reasonable and nothing obvious awry, then I'll just live with it for now.

The bike overheating in traffic is whole different issue and requires installation of a fan or fans across the cooler or larger fans under the fairing to induce a draught.

Thanks all for the advice and time from everybody

John

[motoguzznix]

Weegie

 

Did you ever have a look to the oil cooler of the Norge 8V?

This is designed to work at the lower front of the fairing which could fit perfectly your Australia.

[Weegie]

1 hour ago, motoguzznix said:

Weegie

 

Did you ever have a look to the oil cooler of the Norge 8V?

This is designed to work at the lower front of the fairing which could fit perfectly your Australia.

No I have not, thank you for that, I'll take a look at the sizes and mounting