Nero Corsa Discovery and Refresh

[Scud]

Those side covers can be stubborn. I can see how you could crack one in a removal attempt, especially if an extra-strong adhesive was used. And somebody who worked on this bike in the past wanted things to stay put. For example, the torx-headed bolts for the frame plates had a ton of loc-tite on them, then they used lock washers AND nylock nuts. What a bitch those were... I reverted to stock fasteners.

As for the spring... this bike was owned by at least two previous forum members. And I've sent out a lot of springs to various places so one could have found it's way to this bike. I'm gonna leave it till it breaks (maybe never) since it already shifts well and it's not leaking. I don't feel like tempting fate with a previously cracked cover, and possibly super-adhesive. But I will carry a spare spring, just in case.

[docc]

Good point that it likely broke being pried off from that rear, lower tab. That is an amazing weld. Someone knew what they were doing. + 1 on not disturbing it at this point!

After my latest series of being in-and-out of that shift plate, it is disappointing to have a silly little drip. Shifts great! But drips.

Gotta go back in. Again. 

Thanks for sharing the discoveries in this V11 refresh, @Scud! We all stand to learn!

[footgoose]

1 hour ago, Scud said:

As for the spring...

crap, here I am being a downer but, I can't help it. It's my nature. Waiting does make sense... But something to consider...

You may recall, or not, the "updated spring" was a description used by MGCycle (they still do) and Harpers before the forum spring was developed. I purchased from each of them at the time and still have them, uninstalled of course. I would want to know for sure who's updated spring was in there.

If the plan is to fix it roadside, the cover could break then.

[Scud]

Oh yeah... I forgot that there were some other attempted shift spring updates. Oil is drained (looked like gear oil with a little RedLine Heavy mixed in). I didn't fill it with fresh oil yet, so I guess that means I am harboring some doubt. And I'm not any hurry right now.

Broken cover at roadside would be worst case... but aren't good welds often stronger than the original material?

[ScuRoo]

On 12/24/2021 at 8:48 AM, Scud said:

My favorites are the forum-made bits like Chuck and Phil's shift extender, and the drilled-out cush drive rubbers.

I’ll follow with interest. Your enthusiasm & skills in fettling V11’s are fantastically admirable Scud - & your advocacy on drilling cush rubbers is intriguing.

I remember reading Greg’s original post many, many years ago - with benefits of the drive being made cushier!

So refreshing myself again on the cush subject, various posts stood out...

MartyNZ,

“I agree with him that the V11 is improved, and the drive train should last longer, with a cushier cush drive.

But I don't share his view that engine braking causes damage to the wheel drive spline. I think that each 530cc piston slamming torque down the drive train every engine rev is the main reason for spline wear.”

Jim in NZ, “The original design was OK, but the rubbers are very hard. I didn't drill mine, but I took out every alternate rubber wedge. I also regularly clean the whole cush drive and grease the centre bearing every 10,000km service. The advantage is that you can feel that the cush drive is a bit softer every time you change gear, with less abrupt take-up of the power. This must (by my reasoning) be kinder to the entire drive train fromgearbox to tyres.”

LowRyter, “OK,  the idea of drilling the cush rubber is to take shock out of the driveline for the purpose of a smoother ride or preventing driveline failure.”

docc, “Seems the idea is all about cushioning the drive line.”

Jim in NZ, “Yep, the idea is about cushioning the drive line, and I'm sure it will reduce stresses on all components during hard acceleration, wheelies, clutchless gear changes, unintentionally jiggling the throttle as you go over a bumpy road, and so on.“

LuckyPhil, 

“I dont really like the idea of removing rubbers because it means that the torque is now transmitted through only half the metal drive blades”

Etc., etc.

Now having read all that on the benefits of cushioning the drivetrain & even LP’s concern on torque being transmitted...

If this all makes so much sense - where is the logic in then increasing “slamming torque down the valve train every engine rev” through to the drive splines - & with torque backlash directly transmitted back again by the very installation of direct drive timing gears?

Isn’t this a tad oxymoronic - anyone else see the dichotomy here? I’m left scratching my head over all this...

WTH - does this mean drive splines are more delicate than the cam/ drive train?

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, docc said:

Wow! Great work, as always, @Scud!

Let's face it, there is only ONE truly "improved" shift spring for the V11 6speeder. Chuck-engineered, it is the ScudSuperSpring.

And what is this? I mean that's a nice weld and all, but whoever cracked their shift plate?

This is what happens when you do up the cover bolts and the forks aren't engaged in the shift sleeves.

Ciao 

[Scud]

MartyNZ convinced me on the drilled cush rubbers. He sent me a set just in time for my Scura to have an electrical problem that I ignored for a couple years... I think I'm just gonna replace every other with a drilled one and see how I like it.

And Phil - I think your explanation is more likely than cracking it while prying it off. And why it's so important to dry-fit the cover before applying sealing. It's gotta be fully seated before you put a single screw into it.

[Tomchri]

Phil said it,   it’s easy to hear when the cover is in place.

 Cheers Tom.

[MartyNZ]

14 hours ago, Scud said:

... but aren't good welds often stronger than the original material?

Possibly that weld can be as good as the original material, but not stronger. Because the weld attaches to original material, strength is limited by that. The weld looks good, but a strong weld depends on lots of things. Paint & oil contamination, incomplete weld penetration, porosity, and variations in any residual heat treatment all make restoration of strength difficult. But if it was me, and since the plate looks like the improved version, I'd leave it there. Watch for oil weeping through the weld after a long run. 

[MartyNZ]

5 hours ago, Scud said:

MartyNZ convinced me on the drilled cush rubbers. He sent me a set just in time for my Scura to have an electrical problem that I ignored for a couple years... I think I'm just gonna replace every other with a drilled one and see how I like it.

Drilling the cush rubbers was Greg Field's idea. I tried it, and never went back.

Making a Cushier Cush Drive - Technical Topics - Moto Guzzi V11LeMans.com Forum

There are 3 places that need lubrication while you have the drive plate off.

The input spline to the wheel benefits from Kluber Staburags NBU 30 PTM grease, the rubber pucks and retainer plate spacer benefit from dry-lube spray, and the drive plate bore needs waterproof grease.

Should I lubricate my rubbers? - Technical Topics - Moto Guzzi V11LeMans.com Forum

More discussion here:

Cush drive lubrication - Technical Topics - Moto Guzzi V11LeMans.com Forum

[Lucky Phil]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:48 AM, Scud said:

...so it actually has ONE red Moto Guzzi eagle valve stem cap.

And in other news, it blew a 15 amp fuse twice, so that means it's ready for the lift and some attention to the electrical system along with all the other fun.

I've been collecting bits from various stashes in the garage, and some shiny new things like Rizoma tanks and Pazzo levers. My favorites are the forum-made bits like Chuck and Phil's shift extender, and the drilled-out cush drive rubbers. Of course, I'll be popping in a new unbreakable spring when I do the shift improvement stuff.

I also dug out a bunch of previously powdercoated bits from my aborted Champagne LeMans project. The candy-apple red frame plates and covers look great with the Glossy Black Nero. Speedhut says my gauges will ship next week.

I got the remote clutch-bleeder line that comes on CARC bikes. Gonna try to fit that while I'm in there.

'

Hey Scud if you have a spare top triple clamp for this model with the clipons mounted above the clamp and you would like to sell it I'm interested in buying one for my bike.

Ciao  

[Scud]

@MartyNZ did you replace all the rubbers with drilled ones, or did you alternate. And I have a bit of that Staburags - it's like religion with the BMW K-bike guys. That's what used on the transmission output spline a couple days ago. Thanks for the tips on the drive unit.

@Lucky Phil I can send the take off from this bike after I verify that the powder-coated spare fits correctly. But working sort of back-to-front on this project, so can't send it immediately. Also, USPS is not shipping to Australia right now (thank-you COVID). I'm holding a spring for another member there.

[gstallons]

Replace al the rubbers w/drilled ones .  You want 100 % distribution of the rubbers . 

The anti-seize is good on the driveshaft splines . FoMoCo has a driveshaft spline lube too .  I have some out in the shop , I would have to find it & post the part #  

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, Scud said:

@MartyNZ did you replace all the rubbers with drilled ones, or did you alternate. And I have a bit of that Staburags - it's like religion with the BMW K-bike guys. That's what used on the transmission output spline a couple days ago. Thanks for the tips on the drive unit.

@Lucky Phil I can send the take off from this bike after I verify that the powder-coated spare fits correctly. But working sort of back-to-front on this project, so can't send it immediately. Also, USPS is not shipping to Australia right now (thank-you COVID). I'm holding a spring for another member there.

Ok Cool thanks scud I'm def interested when common sense returns.

Ciao

[MartyNZ]

1 hour ago, Scud said:

@MartyNZ did you replace all the rubbers with drilled ones, or did you alternate. 

Tim, I fitted three pairs of drilled pucks in alternating recesses. See picture. No problems after 3 years.

The other 3 pairs I sent to you in 2017/2018. Yours have slightly less rubber removed.