Charging Light

[docc]

1 hour ago, dbarb3 said:

already have a line on both tank nipples, I'm grasping for straws cause this idle issue surely sounds like some type of vacuum/air issue

 

And you have thoroughly inspected the travel of the throttle linkage rod through its dedicated "tunnel" and past the speedometer drive as @leroysch posted?

[dbarb3]

I have but will double check again in am.

When the rpms are rising the throttle plates aren't moving. 

Seems the only variable is the regulator, I know the wires are connected to the right corresponding wire, but is it possible if one of the connections isn't perfect it could cause this?   It idled fine when  old regulator was connected and it wasn't working right??

[dbarb3]

Lesson learned go to baseline before guess diagnosing. I was convinced the idle issue was related to the regulator or a fuel problem so after rechecking regulator connections and testing charging voltage I wasted $55 on a fuel pump and had same issue. I didn't want to set TPS cause I didn't want to spend $30 on a harness. I didn't want to balance throttle bodies because I didn't want to spend $100 on a synchronizer or build one. Bought testing gear and and set TPS to 157 and balanced throttle bodies and voila, idles perfectly. Fuel pump is money down the drain but I have the testing tools for later. I guess being stubborn and hard headed and a tightwad just doesn't pay in the end. Cant ride yet because forks are out for rebuild but hopefully case closed on this one.

[docc]

"Decent Tune-up" to the rescue, once again!

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a spare fuel pump.

[guzziart]

Hi,

Can we discuss charging system issues again/still, I have a problem, my '03 V11 Lemans no longer charges at idle (was 14.1vdc @1100 rpm last spring).  It appears the system voltage comes up at around 2400 rpm now versus 1100 before.  The Odyssey PC545 is 2 years old and tests good, my headlight, tach & charge TT function normally.  I spliced out the burned stator connector pins when I replaced the battery.  I also attached a ground lead from the VR to the timing chest. The bike has a Kuryakyn led voltmeter that was connected to the headlight circuit by the previous owner, it  always indicated an undercharge condition until I put the headlight on relays, after that the system voltage indicated by the Kury LED was reliable.

My plan is to now check the stator open circuit AC voltage & attempt to determine if the rectifier lost bias/open ( I'm a little unclear about checking VR though).

I was pricing VR's at Euro Motoelectrics and they have a disclamer..USE OF ODYSSEY BATTERY ( DRY CELL DESIGN) AND LITHIUM IRON BATTERY NOT RECOMMENDED OR SUPPORTED FOR WARRANTY.  My bike has run a PC545 from '06 until 2020 when I replaced it with a new PC545.  I sent them a request for more info about they're disclaimer because I want to continue using the Odyssey battery.  Pricing on their VR's are more attractive than OEM.

I also wonder if I caused an issue by installing headlight relays.  I'm unclear about the VR reference voltage than is picked up from the headlight circuit.  By adding the HDL relays it removed the voltage drop in that circuit.  Could it have effected VR sensing system voltage accurately? 

Anyway, thanks for reading my thoughts here and please feel free to toss out opinions & advice, it'll be much appreciated.

Art

 

 

[Tomchri]

Said it before  but after installing a regulator, ( 3 now ) directly connected to your battery, no more problem with charging. 14V plus idling. 30amp fuse is on holiday. IMO Roadstercycle has good products.

Cheers Tom.

[docc]

We've discussed that Odyssey reference before, but I don't recall the discussion came to anything. Let us know what EME says. FWIW, I've been running that combination all along.

Have you just recently grounded the regulator case? I found that to extend my regulator life. Although, when I repaired a detached output (yellow) wire on one of my stators, it never actually recovered. Definitely check your AC output:

rpm:             1000       3000       6000

AC volts:       15            40            80

There are a series of resistance settings that can reveal a faulty regulator.

Removing your headlamp draw from the regulator reference current should give it a more accurate reference, if I understand correctly.

Check, also, the condition of the 30 amp charging fuse. These have been reported to show heat degradation without actually "blowing" an open circuit. Even something as simple as oxidation/ loosening of the battery terminal connections can be significant. Easy to loosen, clean, treat, and tighten.

 

[guzziart]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick responses!

Tom...I looked at the Roadstercycle website, looks good!  Is the OEM reg/rect on our bikes Shindengens?  Also, I will try to determine if a voltage drop exists in the r/r reference circuit between the batt+ & the r/r but I'm kinda thinking a volt drop in that circuit would lead to an overcharge condition??? idk.

Docc...I grounded the reg/rect case back in 2020 when I replaced the old PC545 with a new PC545.  At the same time, I was also doing other preventive maint stuff (stator pin connector replaced) on the bike and had guzzidiag running which is how I now know I have a problem because guzzidiag was indicating 14.1vdc@1100rpm then, I'm running off the batt at idle now.

I'll check the fuses for signs of heat/poor connections & batt connections.  The relay terminals are all very clean & tight.  I hope to get back out to the garage tomorrow to check the stator voltage.

Thanks again for your quick response & advice,

Art

 

[guzziart]

Docc,

In your last post you indicated that you were interested in the Euro Motoelectric response to me about the Odyssey PC545 compatibility with the EME MG-VoltRect, see below.  I appreciated the quick EME response but can't say it was very helpful.  FWIW, I use a Deltran Battery Tender Jr. on ALL my stuff (Odyssey, Yuasa, Everstart & Motobat)

Art

Hi ART,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Yes, your battery may well work with our VoltRect. We have many customers that use these batteries with no problems.

The reason we caution you is because in some cases the battery and VoltRect do not communicate well with the end result being that the either the battery or VoltRect get fried. You probably use a battery tender that is specific to your battery and will not work on the older lead-acid or AGM batteries – so it’s logical that the old charging system on the bike may not work with the modern technologically advanced batteries.

 

Regards

Norman Schwab

Euro Moto Electrics

1.303.526.0901

2505 W 2^nd Ave  |  Unit # 15

Denver, CO 80219  |  USA

 

From: guzziart
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2022 1:39 PM
To: Info <info@euromotoelectrics.com>
Subject: MG- VoltRect

 

Hi,

 I'm in the process of diagnosing a charging system (under charging) problem on my '03 Moto Guzzi V11 Lemans.  While checking price & availability for regulator/rectifiers & stators, I noticed the following in the description for your MG- Volt Rect.  Could you please let me know why you don't advocate use of your product with the Odyssey battery?

 USE OF ODYSSEY BATTERY ( DRY CELL DESIGN) AND LITHIUM IRON BATTERY NOT RECOMMENDED OR SUPPORTED FOR WARRANTY

 The reason I ask is because I have had an Odyssey PC545 battery in this bike since 2006 and replaced it in 2020 with another new PC545. I have not had a battery or charging system problem until yesterday when I noticed that the bike no longer charges at idle.

 I guess where I'm going with this is, the OE charging system performed acceptably with the PC545 and with your MG-VoltRect I shouldn't expect the same results....possibly?  The price of your MG-VoltRect is more appealing than the OE offering but there is no way that I would want to go back to the OE style battery the bike came with when it was new in '03.

 Thank you,

 Art

Northeast Ohio

[Weegie]

I think the reason Euro Moto Electrics don't like AGM batteries is because they have a lower internal resistance, so can accept or feed larger currents than convnetional lead acid batteries.

Roadster Cycles supply Shindengen MOSFET reg/recs and I'm also a fan boy of their products. Ducati owners love the Shindengen reg/recs

@Kiwi_Roy is required to back me up here or correct me, as he's IMHO the most knowledgable guy on here when it comes to electrics.

I think V11s have the Ducati Reg/Rec and have a recollection that Roy told me they're series regulators, which is a little unusual, nearly all regualtors are shunt type. After saying that a few guys on WG installed Shindengen shunt regulators to replace the OEM Ducati regulator and stated they worked fine.

The most common Shindengen FH020AA, is a 3 phase shunt, the alternator on the V11 is a single phase alternator. This means that only one of the available phases on the Shindengen can be used, which will reduce the power rating it's capable of supporting.

Should you choose to go Shindengen I'd check with Jack at Roadster Cycle that the Reg/Rec is capable of supporting the output of the Ducati Alternator.

It is the way I intend go on my HiCam or Sport if required, I don't own a V11 but I really like Shindengen and I'm not a huge fan of Euro Moto Electrics

One more thing there are a whole slew of knock off (Chinese mostly) FH020AA reg/recs on E-Bay and elsewhere, up to you if you use one, but don't be fooled into thinking they're the real deal.

[Tomchri]

1 hour ago, guzziart said:

Hi,

Thanks for the quick responses!

Tom...I looked at the Roadstercycle website, looks good!  Is the OEM reg/rect on our bikes Shindengens?  Also, I will try to determine if a voltage drop exists in the r/r reference circuit between the batt+ & the r/r but I'm kinda thinking a volt drop in that circuit would lead to an overcharge condition??? idk.

Docc...I grounded the reg/rect case back in 2020 when I replaced the old PC545 with a new PC545.  At the same time, I was also doing other preventive maint stuff (stator pin connector replaced) on the bike and had guzzidiag running which is how I now know I have a problem because guzzidiag was indicating 14.1vdc@1100rpm then, I'm running off the batt at idle now.

I'll check the fuses for signs of heat/poor connections & batt connections.  The relay terminals are all very clean & tight.  I hope to get back out to the garage tomorrow to check the stator voltage.

Thanks again for your quick response & advice,

Art

 

Shindengen SH 847 is the one I have installed. I mounted it underneath battery tray, as far back as possible, then no problem clearing the shock. Only around 15k miles, but very happy with the performance.  Good luck.

 Cheers Tom.
Good luck 

[guzziart]

Hi,

Well, I guess I wont be checking stator voltage after seeing this.  I'm not gonna try splice this mess out.  When I replaced the pin connectors a few years ago I noticed that the insulation had become so hot at some point in time that the insulation melted into the wire strands so I don't suspect it is any better now (lol).

FWIW, I didn't have any problem getting the exhaust header & cross-over off but the stator cover was a different matter.  The cover was fastened with SS screws, the sidestand side were loose and came out easy, the other side was just the opposite...those screws were a b$#ch to get out (some evidence of electrolysis) but I was able to get a tap in there and clean out the threads afterward.  IMHO, the ordeal up to this point could have been a whole lot worse.  Now I have figure out whose $350-$400 reg/rec & stator to buy.

On another note, while I have the stator cover off I might try to do something with it...the battleship gray paint on it is bubbled & crappy lookin'.

Hey Docc, thanks for posting the "Posting images using Gallery",  this is my first image posting here...I used your instructions.

Ok, that's all I have to report.

Thanks for reading & advising!

Art

[docc]

Outstanding, Art! Thanks for the thorough update. Definitely looks like you have found your charging issue.

When I bought my last stator from ElectroSport, I found they have markedly improved the heat shielding and strain relief of this known vulnerability of the Ducati Energia stator we use.

 

[guzziart]

Yeah, I reached out to Electrosport for clarification on the electrical connection compatibility.  I'm looking at their ESG814 Stator & ESR515 Regulator/rectifier....the stator has a sqare plug with spade connectors & their reg/rect has an SAE connector &  3 male pin connectors so, how does one plug into the other??.  I really don't want to be splicing/cobbling stuff together, would prefer a "plug & play" set-up.  Hopefully I'll hear back from them today or tomorrow...even though I'm not in a big hurry to spend money.  On the plus side, Electrosport offers a one year warranty with no Odyssey battery disclaimer.

It looks like I could have some of the same connector issues with Euro Motoelectric stuff too.

[docc]

I'm pretty sure the upgraded ElectroSport stator came with spade terminals and I had to remove the (weak) "bullet" connectors from the harness and install spades.