Pecco Moto GP

[p6x]

5 hours ago, LowRyter said:

That squares with my point and makes sense.  

In remaining fully objective, I really don't understand why Dorna could even think that a new, non already involved constructor could replace Suzuki starting in 2023.

The only possible option, in my opinion, is Aprilia. Even the mighty BMW would not be able to put together a package to compete in 2023.

 

[p6x]

Wow Enea Bastianini!!! 3 out 7! would it be the first time a satellite team wins a world championship?

Francesco Bagnaia lost it, and could not accept Bastianini was simply faster today.

I also very happy for Aleix Espargaro and Aprilia to finish 3rd.

And kudos to the French crowd for the celebration given to these three guys and all the riders! Jack Miller clowned it too to thank them!

[GuzziMoto]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:19 PM, p6x said:

In remaining fully objective, I really don't understand why Dorna could even think that a new, non already involved constructor could replace Suzuki starting in 2023.

The only possible option, in my opinion, is Aprilia. Even the mighty BMW would not be able to put together a package to compete in 2023.

 

For sure, building a MotoGP bike from scratch would take years. I doubt anyone has a bike in development that we didn't know about, waiting for just such an opportunity.

I wonder if a deal could be struck, though, where Suzuki sells the current team and bikes to another manufacturer. Another possible option is KTM, it could want Husqvarna or GasGas in MotoGP and could put them there using its KTM MotoGP bikes as a basis for theirs. Like they do in other series (think Supercross / Motocross). But MotoGP rules would make that hard, unless Dorna are willing to change the rules.

I like the option of another brand buying the Suzuki team and rebranding them, and could see Triumph doing that. Beyond that, it is likely this will mean a satellite team for Aprilia, as no one wants to be a Yamaha satellite team and Ducati have enough already. Honda and KTM also don't seem like good options and both already have a satellite team, and their bikes don't seem good enough to warrant a second satellite team.

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto The option to have Suzuki sell the team has been pretty much ruled out; if you are thinking about the Kawazaki "Hayate" solution with Marco Melandri.

Reason being, in today's motoGP, no development means no opportunity.

Jack Miller is said to be heading the KTM way. Joan Mir is also penciled to replace Pol Esparago in Honda. Alex Marquez is staying at LCR; Taka is probably getting substituted. "La Bestia" may remain at Gresini; rumor has it that Francesco Bagnaia is not rolling out the Ducati Factory welcome wagon.

Coming back to Le Mans' specific, 110,000 spectators on the Sunday. Lots of support for all pilots that justified Jack Miller's shenanigans at the end of the GP.

Sadly, the support did not extend to Marc Marquez. He was copiously booed each time the opportunity arose.

Anyhow, Aprilia is able to provide the two additional bikes and support, so they say. But not as a filler for the grid. They want to have a capable well funded team.

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

@GuzziMoto The option to have Suzuki sell the team has been pretty much ruled out; if you are thinking about the Kawazaki "Hayate" solution with Marco Melandri.

Reason being, in today's motoGP, no development means no opportunity.

Jack Miller is said to be heading the KTM way. Joan Mir is also penciled to replace Pol Esparago in Honda. Alex Marquez is staying at LCR; Taka is probably getting substituted. "La Bestia" may remain at Gresini; rumor has it that Francesco Bagnaia is not rolling out the Ducati Factory welcome wagon.

Coming back to Le Mans' specific, 110,000 spectators on the Sunday. Lots of support for all pilots that justified Jack Miller's shenanigans at the end of the GP.

Sadly, the support did not extend to Marc Marquez. He was copiously booed each time the opportunity arose.

Anyhow, Aprilia is able to provide the two additional bikes and support, so they say. But not as a filler for the grid. They want to have a capable well funded team.

I don't know that anything has been "ruled out".

But it is true that some things would require MotoGP to change its rules. But as MotoGP seems very keen to get another manufacturer to replace Suzuki it would not surprise me if they change their rules. I don't understand why you think anyone who bought the Suzuki MotoGP team could not develop the bike. But I would expect that anyone who bought the team, if that happened, would only be buying it to get their foot in the door. Depending on the buyer I would expect that within a couple years the team would field their own bike. But until then they could run the Suzuki. Not completely different than when Kawasaki left, but different.

There are always fans who boo certain racers. I don't agree with it for the most part, but it is what it is. People are people. Human nature means people are dicks. Aside from that it seems the crowd in France was massive for the track. I mean, that track could not hold more people. But honestly that crowd at Indy would look sparse. It is all relative.

[Joe]

Its a complete shame for Suzuki to pull the plug, both riders are legit contenders. I'm not positive but I thought Suzuki was the last inline 4 on the grid.  They always seemed to take care of their tires better that showed up at the end of the race, typically with a podium.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/why-inline-four-motogp-bikes-handle-better-than-v4-motogp-bikes

[Joe]

MotoGP

 

RIDERS

 

CONSTRUCTORS

 

1. 2022 Standings

   Rank	Rider		Points	Wins	Podiums
   1		F. Quartararo Yamaha	102	1	3
   2		A. Espargaró Aprilia	98	1	4
   3		E. Bastianini Ducati	94	3	3
   4		Á. Rins Suzuki	69	0	2
   5		J. Miller Ducati	62	0	2

   6		J. Zarco Ducati	62	0	2
   7		F. Bagnaia Ducati	56	1	1
   8		B. Binder KTM	56	0	1
   9		J. Mir Suzuki	56	0	0
   10		M. Márquez Honda	54	0	0
   11		M. Oliveira KTM	43	1	1
   12		P. Espargaró Honda	40	0	1
   13		M. Viñales Aprilia	33	0	0
   14		T. Nakagami Honda	30	0	0
   15		J. Martín Ducati	28	0	1
   16		L. Marini Ducati	21	0	0
   17		F. Morbidelli Yamaha	19	0	0
   18		M. Bezzecchi Ducati	19	0	0
   19		Á. Márquez Honda	18	0	0
   20		A. Dovizioso Yamaha	8	0	0
   21		D. Binder Yamaha	6	0	0
   22		F. Di Giannantonio Ducati	3	0	0
   23		R. Gardner KTM	3	0	0
   24		R. Fernández KTM	0	0	0
   25		L. Savadori Aprilia	0	0	0
   26		S. Bradl Honda	0	0	0

    

    

[GuzziMoto]

44 minutes ago, Joe said:

Its a complete shame for Suzuki to pull the plug, both riders are legit contenders. I'm not positive but I thought Suzuki was the last inline 4 on the grid.  They always seemed to take care of their tires better that showed up at the end of the race, typically with a podium.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/why-inline-four-motogp-bikes-handle-better-than-v4-motogp-bikes

Yes, it is a shame. And yeah, the Suzuki's do seem to take good care of their tires and come to the front towards the end of the race. But it seems Suzuki is struggling with motorcycles as a whole. I worry about their long term viability in the motorcycle industry. They are saying all the things one would say when they are on their way out.

The Yamaha is also an inline 4. Word is the inline 4 is at a disadvantage with the current rules package. I do miss the days of a wider variety on engines on the grid. When they first went to 4 strokes the best thing about the 4 stroke rules were they allowed a number of different engine configurations by setting different minimum weights with 3 cylinder bikes getting to weigh less and 6 cylinder bikes (which no one actually made) being the heaviest. So we saw everything from 3 cylinder Aprilia's to 5 cylinder Honda's (a V5). That was fun. Now the primary difference is an inline 4 or V4.

[p6x]

Well, there is a big controversy at stake at present.

I don't know if you have watched some of the follow up streams from the various entities, but I did. It is also being discussed in the post race topics.

To sum it up, the riders are saying it has become impossible to overtake mainly because when you follow the rider that precedes you, your front tire becomes chewing gum; this is how Fabio Quartararo puts it.

Here's one written article about it from Crash.net, but you can find the same discussions on YT.

Another question being asked is will any other team follow Suzuki's lead to quit motoGP? they are breaking their contract with Dorna, just one year after signing it. Almost every contract I have looked at has a "Force Majeure" clause. And one of the Force Majeure common cause is war.

Let us see what is going to happen at the Mugello where the winner is most likely going to be on a Ducati.

[GuzziMoto]

12 hours ago, p6x said:

Well, there is a big controversy at stake at present.

I don't know if you have watched some of the follow up streams from the various entities, but I did. It is also being discussed in the post race topics.

To sum it up, the riders are saying it has become impossible to overtake mainly because when you follow the rider that precedes you, your front tire becomes chewing gum; this is how Fabio Quartararo puts it.

Here's one written article about it from Crash.net, but you can find the same discussions on YT.

Another question being asked is will any other team follow Suzuki's lead to quit motoGP? they are breaking their contract with Dorna, just one year after signing it. Almost every contract I have looked at has a "Force Majeure" clause. And one of the Force Majeure common cause is war.

Let us see what is going to happen at the Mugello where the winner is most likely going to be on a Ducati.

I have heard about that. And it does seem like a problem. It affects some, like Fabio, more than others, like Bastiani. It sounds like there are two aspects of the current bikes that contribute to the problem, the aero (which we all saw coming, or should have seen, aero does that) and the design of the Michelin front tire and the tire pressures it needs to work. That sounds like the bigger issue, the current Michelin front tire has issues. Funny, because back in the day (20 years ago) the Michelin front tire was magic. Now it is a cruel mistress.

I would be surprised to hear other manufacturers bailing on MotoGP. The series is more popular now then it has ever been. And that makes competing in it more valuable then ever. Suzuki seems to be an anomaly. Perhaps bean counters are running the company, I can relate to that. Nothing like bean counters who don't understand how the business works running a company. Either that or they are on their way out of the motorcycle business and are simply saving that money to invest in an aspect of their business that they are moving away from.

[guzzigary]

Suzuki’s financial concerns are around being involved in the latest emissions scandal in Europe 

[Joe]

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/german-prosecutors-mount-raids-over-suzuki-cars-alleged-test-dodging-2022-04-27/

[po18guy]

It is written: "They will beat their side stands into swords..."

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/german-prosecutors-mount-raids-over-suzuki-cars-alleged-test-dodging-2022-04-27/

That sounds like Stellantis is in trouble. Not sure how much of that will come back to Suzuki.

But it seems many diesel engine manufacturers are going to be in trouble soon. Side note, why would you source your Diesel engines from Stellantis / FCA?

[docc]

50 minutes ago, GuzziMoto said:

That sounds like Stellantis is in trouble. Not sure how much of that will come back to Suzuki.

But it seems many diesel engine manufacturers are going to be in trouble soon. Side note, why would you source your Diesel engines from Stellantis / FCA?

The VM Motori V6 diesel has had a good reputation. My son has one in a 4 door 4x4 RAM pickup. It is surprisingly capable and powerful, yet light, quiet, and reasonable fuel economy