Pecco Moto GP

[motortouring]

On 3/22/2022 at 9:53 PM, Lucky Phil said:

Carefully watch the front forks just before he tips into the corner, maybe 50m before and you'll see them compress sharply and rebound which isn't normally what you'd expect at that point as it upsets the bike just before entry.

The highside mechanism is a pretty straight forward one. The rear tyre loses grip and begins to slide which tightens the line of the bike to varying degrees and the rear suspension extends once again to a varying degree. The rider or the traction control then backs the power off and the tyre grips again, the rear suspension compresses and depending on the degree of the above mentioned dynamics plus the speed the lean angle and quite a few other factors the resultant potential energy created is released in one violent event for the bike and rider. The rest is the dissipation of that now kinetic energy into altitude for rider and bike and friction when they hit the ground.  

Modern traction control systems are supposed to mitigate the event well before the attitude of the bike is allowed to create the potential energy however there isn't currently any protection for an "off throttle" highside Marquez experienced. 

Ciao 

Your right. 

[LowRyter]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:53 PM, Lucky Phil said:

Carefully watch the front forks just before he tips into the corner, maybe 50m before and you'll see them compress sharply and rebound which isn't normally what you'd expect at that point as it upsets the bike just before entry.

The highside mechanism is a pretty straight forward one. The rear tyre loses grip and begins to slide which tightens the line of the bike to varying degrees and the rear suspension extends once again to a varying degree. The rider or the traction control then backs the power off and the tyre grips again, the rear suspension compresses and depending on the degree of the above mentioned dynamics plus the speed the lean angle and quite a few other factors the resultant potential energy created is released in one violent event for the bike and rider. The rest is the dissipation of that now kinetic energy into altitude for rider and bike and friction when they hit the ground.  

Modern traction control systems are supposed to mitigate the event well before the attitude of the bike is allowed to create the potential energy however there isn't currently any protection for an "off throttle" highside Marquez experienced. 

Ciao 

I was reading another board.  One of the posters was listening to the GP press conference today.  Best I could get was that Honda said that MM's bike crashed due to a failed ride height device.  Makes me wonder if these things should be eliminated? 

Also one the transport planes on the way to Argentina got stuck in Kenya with mechanical failures.  A couple of the Ducati teams don't have their bikes and garages.  

[Lucky Phil]

14 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I was reading another board.  One of the posters was listening to the GP press conference today.  Best I could get was that Honda said that MM's bike crashed due to a failed ride height device.  Makes me wonder if these things should be eliminated? 

Also one the transport planes on the way to Argentina got stuck in Kenya with mechanical failures.  A couple of the Ducati teams don't have their bikes and garages.  

Interesting on both counts. Puig is still blaming Michelin and all the teams want the front ride height adjuster banned except for Ducati of course. This is pretty typical from teams that don't innovate much because they are caught behind the curve and are lacking a little in speed until they catch up. MotoGP is getting too much like F1 for my liking.

Ciao   

[docc]

19 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

 MotoGP is getting too much like F1 for my liking.

Ciao   

Easy to agree. I have a difficult time with relevance. Anyone remember US TransAm road racing? Drivers like Dan Gurney, Parnelli Jones, and AJ Foyt flogging "regular" iron on the weekend that I would be driving (something similarly recognizable) to school on Monday.

Yeah, those black marks leaving the school parking lot were mine . . .

[LowRyter]

I think MotoGP is the best racing on the planet.  But I have to agree that wings and ride height adjusters seem to muck it up a little.  A lot of tech with little benefit to quality of the racing.  Of course any team wants an edge allowed within the rules.   Then the rules get reconsidered.  

So far as F1, I was skeptical of the DRS but it seems to have paid off the last couple of races (along with ground effects).  I'd like to see them go back to steel suspension rods rather than carbon fiber after seeing Hamilton spear Verstoppen at Silverstone last year.   I have no idea why each car can't have it's own pit, and those crazy drive between the lines rules need to be replaced with sand traps and barriers.  Having written this, I actually watched a few races last year (not the entire durations) and seen some of both races this year. 

OTOH, there was real racing going on at the Texas Indycar race, I'm kicking myself for not going.

 

[LowRyter]

1 hour ago, LowRyter said:

I was reading another board.  One of the posters was listening to the GP press conference today.  Best I could get was that Honda said that MM's bike crashed due to a failed ride height device.  Makes me wonder if these things should be eliminated? 

Also one the transport planes on the way to Argentina got stuck in Kenya with mechanical failures.  A couple of the Ducati teams don't have their bikes and garages.  

OK, I got a follow up on the other board.  Apparently Honda never said the crash was about mechanical failure.  This came from another rider (Zarco?) based on rumor in the paddock.  I think some of the Honda riders are blaming Michelin from what I've read elsewhere.    

[p6x]

14 hours ago, LowRyter said:

OK, I got a follow up on the other board.  Apparently Honda never said the crash was about mechanical failure.  This came from another rider (Zarco?) based on rumor in the paddock.  I think some of the Honda riders are blaming Michelin from what I've read elsewhere.    

Those high side type of crashes used to be linked to the two stroke racing bikes, without any of today's electronics.

As for the rumor on blaming Michelin, I have a hard time to accept that Michelin would have remained silent about their decision to bring different tires in Indonesia, when that decision was taken during the pre-season tests. It does not make any sense. During those tests, they noticed the tires were getting a lot of blisters, because of the high track temperatures. Not something you can sweep under the rug. The teams must have noticed it too. This is when Michelin allegedly decided they would bring different tires for the Indonesian Grand-Prix; and they would do this without telling anyone? sounds strange to me.

One of the journalist I listen to, someone who has been around and has special connections in the paddock, said that part of the problem is that Honda may not have properly tuned up their electronic package to suit the new tires. Now that we are aware teams use GPS to fine tune bike's electronics according to where they are located on the race track. Even more aware because of what happened to Jack Miller, who had to retire because his central unit got out of phase with where the bike was on the track. It seems crazy, but this is one of today's racing reality. Parameters are adjusted for each curve or straight automatically.

High sides like the one Marc Marquez suffered are rare nowadays, and hopefully will remain exceptional considering how dangerous they are.

 

[p6x]

@LowRyter

Friday's free practices have been cancelled as the second aircraft that was sent to carry the equipment the first aircraft could not experienced a technical problem too.

All the practices are going to be tomorrow.

Revised Saturday schedule - 2022 Argentine MotoGP

08:45-09:25  Moto3 FP1 (12:45-13:25 UK)
09:40-10:20 Moto2 FP1 (13:40-13:25 UK)
10:35-11:20 MotoGP FP1 (14:35-15:20 UK)
11:35-12:15 Moto3 FP2 (15:35-16:15 UK)
12:30-13:10 Moto2 FP2 (16:30-17:10 UK)
13:25-14:10 MotoGP FP2 (17:25-18:10 UK)
14:35-14:50 Moto3 Qualifying 1 (18:35-18:50 UK)
15:00-15:15 Moto3 Qualifying 2 (19:00-19:15 UK)
15:30-15:45 Moto2 Qualifying 1 (19:30-19:45 UK)
15:55-16:10 Moto2 Qualifying 2 (19:55-20:10 UK)
16:25-16:55 MotoGP FP3 (20:25-20:55 UK)
17:05-17:20 MotoGP Qualifying 1 (21:05-21:20 UK)
17:30-17:45 MotoGP Qualifying 2 (21:30-21:45 UK)

[GuzziMoto]

I have not studied Marquez's big crash like Phil and others have. I saw video of it, but based on past personal history I don't pay too much attention to crashes like that. But it seemed clear he lost the rear end going into the corner. If that is true, the traction control electronics really had nothing to do with the crash. The only electronics that might have been involved are the electronics that control the clutch and throttle under deceleration. More likely a crash like that is rider error and bike setup. But whatever caused the crash, it was clear that some teams were severely disadvantaged by Michelins decision to bring a different tire than they tested with, while other teams benefited from that decision. That is the nature of a spec tire series, and changes to the spec tire provided will advantage some teams and disadvantage others. A spec tire series (while I believe is a mistake) needs to have consistency in the tire spec. Teams spend massive amounts of money to get the bike to work with the spec tire. Riders spend a lot of time and take a fair amount of risk honing the skills to work with the spec tire. And all that money, all that effort, can be thrown away if the tire supplier brings a different tire to a race. The teams spent time at a test, they spent money, and the riders risked their health and safety. And all that was thrown out the window because Michelin decided to bring a different tire. Whether they told the teams they were going to do this or not doesn't change the fact that this decision wasted all the effort and money spent leading up to the race and turned the race into a lottery. Some won in that lottery and others lost. It is supposed to be racing, not a lottery.

[LowRyter]

Saw on my phone feed, that MM#93 is retiring.  

[fotoguzzi]

Maybe that's an April fools joke?

[LowRyter]

6 hours ago, fotoguzzi said:

Maybe that's an April fools joke?

Didn't read like it.  And it's not a funny subject.  The risk of double vision is too serious.  Expect an official announcement soon.  

Perhaps the press leak is an attempt to discourage MM from continuing? 

[LowRyter]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Didn't read like it.  And it's not a funny subject.  The risk of double vision is too serious.  Expect an official announcement soon.  

Perhaps the press leak is an attempt to discourage MM from continuing? 

Here's the original article that was on my phone feed. 

https://www.motorcyclesports.net/articles/breaking-news-diplopia-wins-and-marc-marquez-ends-his-career

[fotoguzzi]

If you follow the link at the bottom of the article it takes you to the April Fools page.

https://www.motorcyclesports.net/articles/did-you-discover-our-april-1-news

[LowRyter]

OK, very bad tastes for April's Fools.  Even worse when dated 2 April.