PC545 Odyssey...

[ScuRoo]

Fair enough - but in that case just get a LiFePO4 snowmobile battery - massive CCA & designed for extreme cold starts.

Operating Temperature
-30 °C to +60 °C

Capacity vs Temperature
25 °C = 100%

0°C = 94%

-30°C = 88%

https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etz14c/
EarthX seems to have an worthy reputation on snowmobile forums.

 

[p6x]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:41 PM, docc said:

Lots of PC545 and regulator lore logged here.  The PC545 does have some rather specific charging requirements, per the manufacturer. Link to a lengthy thread, below.

Otherwise, turn the ignition/lights on while you finish putting your helmet and gloves on, before starting. The draw will chemically warm the battery and enhance the start discharge current. I found this totally non-intuitive and hard to accept.

Reality can be like that sometimes. 

 

Lithium batteries develop what is called a “passivation” layer when not in use. 
cold environment exacerbate the phenomenon.

the advice from Docc is very valid. Before you attempt to draw serious amps, warm up the battery by running lights or else.

my company started using Lithium batteries from the 80’s. Working with SAFT to improve them. Of course we used our batteries for a different application but we faced the same issues.

something that nobody tells you, but a lithium battery is best left “energized” if possible. A very low draw is better than a big surge before use (charging before use).

we had a device that made use of resistors to do just that.

I don’t understand why battery manufacturers don’t include such device part of their batteries. They are aware of the con’s of lithium ion batteries.

Something else. Batteries that have been stored a long time on shelf before purchase suffer from that same passivation problem.

 

[VtwinStorm]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

With a LiPo battery in cold climes you need to turn the headlight on for a minute or two before you try and crank the big twin to warm the battery up. This is the accepted process.

Ciao

Did that with my Triumph...multiple times. Didn't work.

Not throwing away another $200+ to experience the same with my Guzzi.

If I lived in Texas or Australia, fine. But not in New England. The tech isn't ready for "the rest of us" in less than warm climes.

[VtwinStorm]

55 minutes ago, ScuRoo said:

Fair enough - but in that case just get a LiFePO4 snowmobile battery - massive CCA & designed for extreme cold starts.

Operating Temperature
-30 °C to +60 °C

Capacity vs Temperature
25 °C = 100%

0°C = 94%

-30°C = 88%

https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etz14c/
EarthX seems to have an worthy reputation on snowmobile forums.

 

I doubt these fit a V11 Sport.

I'm not getting burned and wasting money on a lithium battery ever again.

[GuzziMoto]

I run Odyssey batteries in some things, like the V11 and our Jeep. I run Lithium batteries in other things where appropriate. There are times when a Lithium battery makes sense. But there are times where the increased cost and cold weather issues don't. In some applications the reduced weight of a Lithium battery is an advantage. And applications where the small size required means the Lithium battery is the better option. Like the wife's Ducati Monster. There is no good lead acid battery that will fit in that small space and deliver the desired power. So it now has a Lithium battery. That said, I can't see as much of an advantage to putting a Lithium battery in a V11. But to each their own.

[MartyNZ]

12 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

With a LiPo battery in cold climes you need to turn the headlight on for a minute or two before you try and crank the big twin to warm the battery up. This is the accepted process.

Ciao

I have a LiFePO4 type Shorai battery in my bike. For cold starting, they say: "If starting at 5°C, headlights on for 30 seconds will help wake the battery and increase cranking performance. If at -17°C, leave the lights on for 4~5 minutes before cranking. The result will be a better first crank, and longer battery life.  If the engine fails to start on first crank, that first crank has warmed the battery, and the second attempt will be much stronger."

So Phil makes a good point.

The Shorai LFX21L6-BS12 cranks my V11 well.

[VtwinStorm]

4 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

I have a LiFePO4 type Shorai battery in my bike. For cold starting, they say: "If starting at 5°C, headlights on for 30 seconds will help wake the battery and increase cranking performance. If at -17°C, leave the lights on for 4~5 minutes before cranking. The result will be a better first crank, and longer battery life.  If the engine fails to start on first crank, that first crank has warmed the battery, and the second attempt will be much stronger."

So Phil makes a good point.

Had a Shorai in my Daytona 1200. Electrical system, carbs, plugs, wires, all were on-point.

Thought I'd save a few lbs. on a 556lb. bike.

Nope. Lithium is useless for my applications.

After 2 weeks dancing and praying for it to work, bought a heavy AGM Yuasa. Started 1st time at 46 degrees...with a set of four carbs and a heavy 1200cc to turn over.

That lithium battery would have blown my sprag clutch if I kept trying until it decided to start my bike.

Clack clack clack...that was my sprag getting destroyed one attempt at a time. That's an engine out job...no thank you!

I will say, that lithium battery was a very light paperweight!

[GuzziMoto]

16 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

I have a LiFePO4 type Shorai battery in my bike. For cold starting, they say: "If starting at 5°C, headlights on for 30 seconds will help wake the battery and increase cranking performance. If at -17°C, leave the lights on for 4~5 minutes before cranking. The result will be a better first crank, and longer battery life.  If the engine fails to start on first crank, that first crank has warmed the battery, and the second attempt will be much stronger."

So Phil makes a good point.

The Shorai LFX21L6-BS12 cranks my V11 well.

I get that. And to an extent that is a good idea. But when I put a Lithium battery in my '07 Griso 1100 it didn't work that way. Like many fuel injected bikes my Griso will abort the start attempt if the voltage drops below the required threshold. And it doesn't turn on the headlight when not running, only the running light. And that doesn't seem to have enough current draw to warm the battery. Later versions of the Griso would run the starter anyway if you held the starter button down. But the early versions would not. So, on my Griso, the Lithium battery was a fail. And the weight savings was unnoticeable, a few pounds saved on a 500 pound motorcycle is insignificant.

The technology is improving. And not only for weight savings but for energy density. The amount of power they are fitting into such small packages is amazing. We are currently running a Lithium battery in the wife's Monster and have two 100A Lithium batteries in our RV. I can see eventually all our battery applications could end up being Lithium.  But currently for some of our applications a lead acid battery is still the better choice. The Odyssey battery that got pulled out of the wife's V11 is still running my lawn tractor. It is easily more than ten years old. It just keeps going. That said, our EV has a Lithium battery.

[VtwinStorm]

9 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I get that. And to an extent that is a good idea. But when I put a Lithium battery in my '07 Griso 1100 it didn't work that way. Like many fuel injected bikes my Griso will abort the start attempt if the voltage drops below the required threshold. And it doesn't turn on the headlight when not running, only the running light. And that doesn't seem to have enough current draw to warm the battery. Later versions of the Griso would run the starter anyway if you held the starter button down. But the early versions would not. So, on my Griso, the Lithium battery was a fail. And the weight savings was unnoticeable, a few pounds saved on a 500 pound motorcycle is insignificant.

The technology is improving. And not only for weight savings but for energy density. The amount of power they are fitting into such small packages is amazing. We are currently running a Lithium battery in the wife's Monster and have two 100A Lithium batteries in our RV. I can see eventually all our battery applications could end up being Lithium.  But currently for some of our applications a lead acid battery is still the better choice. The Odyssey battery that got pulled out of the wife's V11 is still running my lawn tractor. It is easily more than ten years old. It just keeps going. That said, our EV has a Lithium battery.

Exactly. Lithium batteries aren't some panacea for all of us.

[po18guy]

21 hours ago, VtwinStorm said:

Had a Shorai in my Daytona 1200. Electrical system, carbs, plugs, wires, all were on-point.

Thought I'd save a few lbs. on a 556lb. bike.

Nope. Lithium is useless for my applications.

After 2 weeks dancing and praying for it to work, bought a heavy AGM Yuasa. Started 1st time at 46 degrees...with a set of four carbs and a heavy 1200cc to turn over.

That lithium battery would have blown my sprag clutch if I kept trying until it decided to start my bike.

Clack clack clack...that was my sprag getting destroyed one attempt at a time. That's an engine out job...no thank you!

I will say, that lithium battery was a very light paperweight!

Having had a disturbing number of PC545 "clicks" when far away from home - even after conditioning - I recalled that my Kawi had a Yuasa AGM that worked just fine for 9 years. So, what's a couple of pounds on a 550 pound bike? I can skip a meal or two and lose more than that. So, the AGM is in and works as expected. If one has an aversion to Yuasa, say because a Yuasa let them down back in the 70s, there is yet another battery maker in Reading, Pennsylvania: DEKA (East Penn Mfg.) They also make an two or three AGMs for Guzzis.

[ScuRoo]

7 hours ago, VtwinStorm said:

Exactly. Lithium batteries aren't some panacea for all of us.

I acknowledge your experience sticking with AGM - but it’s also worth seeing the snowmobile guys er.., gelling well with them. 🤤

They obviously can work just fine in subzero conditions - & speaks volumes as it would be more life threatening to get stranded out woop woop in the snow!

But as you say… “YMMV”