Guest sdkfz11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 It seems to have gone quiet on the broken spring front. Is the problem solved ? Here is what 2 dealers have told me. It seems the problem is not so much with the spring itself but the round boss that the circular part of the spring rests on. It seems that this part is not machined or cast to the correct dimensions. If the diameter is too large then when the gear change is operated the spring becomes bound up ( coil bound ) to tightly and eventualy the tang ( small right angled piece at the spring end) breaks. He showed me these parts in operation and you could see the spring tighten up. I bought a new (03) V11 from one of these dealers , before it left the showrooms he removed the gear selector cover to check the spring post dimentions so I hope I will not have any more broken springs (have had 2 break on the 02 Guzzi ). Please excuse any grammatical errors its 4 in the morn and I'm on the night shift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 That's a very interesting theory. What's done if post does measure up to big?Who's the dealer? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest King Nit Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Just got in from another 30 miles in 3rd gear - 2nd spring gone ( well I guess that's what it is) at 6,750 miles. I'm gonna have a look later, see what's happened - guess a bust spring would be the good news.... sdkfz's theory outlined above makes a lot of sense to me. Does anyone have correct dimensionse for the spring post? sdkfz - who is your dealer? Thanks, KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Hey King Nit, That 3rd gear aint worth shit, had same thing go. But I found, once I'd raised the bars & fitted a fender extenda things weren't so bad. Best o luck mate. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Yep it's spring gone again . I need to know what diameter the boss should be. I can see how the spring would become coil bound & overstress the tang. But what's the solution? Turn boss down? More open coil on spring? I note that the spring Carl sent me from States has a slightly more open coil - is this why they seem not to break? Anyone got box apart at moment can measure boss for me? Thanks, KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Jaap Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hey Baldini/ King Nit, Stop messing with our head and the the forumisti that you are one and the same guy! I can't resist posting this Blackadder quote : "Wales is a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough sinewy men roam the valleys terrorising people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the placenames. Never ask for directions in Wales Baldrick, you'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Jaap, ...the King has left the building... Site wouldn't let me log on as Baldini so I re-registered - but now you sorted it ...so he's gone ( didn't much care for him anyhow, odd sort of fellow...) sorry & thanks. now back to the important matter of spring post dimensions...anyone? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Jaap Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 sorry & thanks. Don't worry... I found them quite amusing, these conversations with your alter ego. btw... I have deleted the King Nit account. Good riddance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sdkfz11 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Dear KB, sorry to hear that your spring may have gone west.The dealers I have used are DK motorcycles of Stoke. Their mechanic who services the Guzzi is a Harley owner (bit ironic) I shall not be using them any more as they were not very helpfull last week with any info on the spring problem. The dealer I bought the 03 V11 from was Twiggers of Loughborough a main dealer for Aprillia/Guzzi. The mechanic there seems to have a good interest in the Guzzi and it was from his mouth that came forth the explanation of the over size gear change-shaft dimensions.I believe he gets a shaft that is correct in size from MG. Maybe you could phone him for some advice. My V11 has now covered an amazing 500 miles and the first cracks are starting to appear. Gear oil has started to dribble over one side of the exhaust collector box and appears to leaking from the small cover on the rear of the gearbox where the clutch actuating mechanism is.Mechanic thinks they may have to move the engine forward in the frame to access the seal. Just the type of problem I was hoping to avoid by buying the latest produced V11(thinking by now that the Italians might have got their act together) fat chance ! Still I suppose it could happen to any machine. At least I have the dull but reliable BMW R1150RS to fall back on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Thanks sdkfz11,I'll phone Twiggers tomorrow. Try a search on this forum re your gbox oil leak - seems a bunch of places they leak from. Mine's always got a film of oil round lower left. Not really sure where it's weeping. Cheers, KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boggycox Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Dear sdkfz11, I think the oik leak you are on about isn't coming from a seal but from the gearbox breather, to cure try draining gearbox and then measure out exact recomended quantity of gearoil and refill dont refill untill level appears in level glass i had this problem with mine and it cured it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 problem is not so much with the spring itself but the round boss that the circular part of the spring rests on. It seems that this part is not machined or cast to the correct dimensions. If the diameter is too large then when the gear change is operated the spring becomes bound up ( coil bound ) to tightly and eventualy the tang ( small right angled piece at the spring end) breaks. I spoke with the man. Goes like this: The boss holding the pawl arm spring should be 15mm. Some are 16mm. Some outside manuf supplied to wrong dimesions. Only in some bikes....the ones with the breaking springs. I measured mine at 16.3mm. What he says makes sense to me. The spring gets coilbound on the boss & can't move - stressing the 90 bend. I've ordered a pawl arm w correct size boss. I hope this is the answer. If it is - I'll buy the man a beer or several. But couldn't Guzzi have sorted it? Thanks to sdkfz11 for info, In hope, KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I spoke with the man. Goes like this: The boss holding the pawl arm spring should be 15mm. Some are 16mm. Some outside manuf supplied to wrong dimesions. Only in some bikes....the ones with the breaking springs. That sounds so plausible. If it were the springs, they'd be breaking in other year bikes, but they aren't. It's always been the 2002 models. And 2002 models that are breaking springs now, are not likely getting springs made in 2002, and yet they are still breaking. I'd say the coil bound reasoning is dead on. Now, about that leak. It may be a seal, it may not. Guzzi has terrible metallurgy, their castings are frequently porous. Sometimes the gearbox case just cracks, like mine did. Hopefully, the gearbox leak sdkfz11 is describing is a seal. If the case is cracked, it is very difficult to see the leaking spot. The only reason I ever located mine after at least 15,000 miles of dripping, is that the transmission came out of the bike after an accident where I could see the crack. On the bike, this spot is behind the left porkchop. It really can only be seen in the bike using a flashlight and looking up along the left swingarm on top viewing from the rear. Even then, it may not be visible. The new case set me back $613. The good part about this I think, is that if someone else has this same crack, then the best course is make it accessable somehow, clean the hell out of it, and use an aluminum filled epoxy/resin compound like JB Weld and just seal it from the outside. Structurally, it may not be significant. Mine certainly did not get worse from the first time I noticed it until I had my accident, and that much riding should have caused some sort of creeping case failure if it were stressed very much. The accident did crack the case in two spots, but apparently, not the one in the photo. The red lines marking the limits of the two oil types, were how I determined that the crack had been there before the accident. I had changed to the Red Line lubricant (Fabulous stuff BTW) just a short time before the accident. Long enough for it to ooze out of the case and slowly start dribbling down onto the collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 problem is not so much with the spring itself but the round boss that the circular part of the spring rests on. It seems that this part is not machined or cast to the correct dimensions. If the diameter is too large then when the gear change is operated the spring becomes bound up ( coil bound ) to tightly and eventualy the tang ( small right angled piece at the spring end) breaks. I spoke with the man. Goes like this: The boss holding the pawl arm spring should be 15mm. Some are 16mm. Some outside manuf supplied to wrong dimesions. Only in some bikes....the ones with the breaking springs. I measured mine at 16.3mm. What he says makes sense to me. The spring gets coilbound on the boss & can't move - stressing the 90 bend. I've ordered a pawl arm w correct size boss. I hope this is the answer. If it is - I'll buy the man a beer or several. But couldn't Guzzi have sorted it? Thanks to sdkfz11 for info, In hope, KB This is excellent news.... so I wonder if it were just a small "batch" and even not all 2002s are affected? This seems on one hand to be a relativley common problem, but on the other not so common in that it doesn't seem to affect even all 2002 bikes I wonder if one couldn't just grind/file down the boss by hand a bit if it is too large, as opposed to trying to get another? After all, it's only ~1mm it sounds like, and I'm sure it doesn't have to be perrrrrfectly round eh?? al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 btw... I have deleted the King Nit account. Good riddance You can't treat royalty like that! Off with your head! The spring boss – are there any photos or diagrams of this sitting around the site somewhere? From what Baldini describes, the boss is on a removable part – is it a big job to get at it to examine and, if needs be, remove it and file it down to size? I wonder would the edition numbers of bikes be a guide to when they were assembled and so possibly point to a particular period when out of tolerance parts crept in? Does anyone know if a batch would all be made at the same size, or is it just an individual thing? Have many others who replaced springs had them break again? Does anyone know what the difference is between the original spring as fitted and the replacement spring as supplied by Guzzi? Questions, questions...and I'm sure some have been answered here before What is your limited edition number, Baldini (and anyone else with a broken spring Scura)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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