Guest Steeltoe Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I was wondering about anyones experience with the Pwr Cmdr? I got one thrown in when I bought my Ballabio, but as of yet it is not installed. What kind of difference does it make for solo canyon riding? I don't ride two up much, or the track. How about gas mileage? Any opinions appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Steeltoe, On a 03 or 04 stock bike, you may not need a PCIII. Now if you have or plan to change the mufflers, you will gain alot from installing the PCIII. On my 03 Rosso, it ran great in stock form. I installed a set of carbon cans and the bike spit, spuddered and would stall. I added a PCII and dialed it in and the bike runs better than stock, gets better fuel mileage and sounds great too! The only thing I am not sure about is how it would work on a bike that has the feedback system, which some 03 and 04 do have. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerroldt Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I have replaced the stock mufflers on a Triumph, an older MG and 2 Harleys with more free flowing mufflers (and K&N's also) and put thousands of miles on them with no ill effects. Of course they were carburetted. My brother just bought a new Harley and had the dealer install Vance and Hines Straight Shot mufflers and they remapped his bike. My neighbor just bought a new Harley also and installed the same mufflers himself and the dealer told him that if the headers turned blue he would need to remap the bike. I am fearful of putting performance mufflers on my 03 Le Mans without a power commander etc. since I think that the engine may run hotter due to the increased air flow. I don't think that you can tell how hot a Le Mans is running by the color of the pipes since they all seem to turn blue at the bends of the exhausts. Has anyone done it without a Power Commander and if so what have been the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I have replaced the stock mufflers on a Triumph, an older MG and 2 Harleys with more free flowing mufflers (and K&N's also) and put thousands of miles on them with no ill effects. Of course they were carburetted. My brother just bought a new Harley and had the dealer install Vance and Hines Straight Shot mufflers and they remapped his bike. My neighbor just bought a new Harley also and installed the same mufflers himself and the dealer told him that if the headers turned blue he would need to remap the bike. I am fearful of putting performance mufflers on my 03 Le Mans without a power commander etc. since I think that the engine may run hotter due to the increased air flow. I don't think that you can tell how hot a Le Mans is running by the color of the pipes since they all seem to turn blue at the bends of the exhausts. Has anyone done it without a Power Commander and if so what have been the results? Humm, Once the exhaust turns blue, isn't it too late? Meaning, most Harley owners like all that chrome, once the chrome turns blue, it is time for another set of pipes. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerroldt Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Personally I don't care about the pipes, just the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerroldt Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I love my Le Mans but in defense of Harley I will have to disagree with all the tongue-in-cheek put downs. The Evolution engines are bulletproof and will do 100,000 miles with normal maintence. There is always a dealer nearby who will guarantee to have your Harley repaired if it needs it. I have an Electraglide Ultra in my garage that has been ridden coast to coast/North to South with zero problems. I had an earlier Evo Harley that was a repeat. Most Harley owners are now even more yuppier than even Guzzi riders in SOCAL; sad, since Harley has become a status symbol and now most middle age riders truck or trailer thier bikes to events. There are still a few hardcore riders who tour and their bikes don't break. No worries of oil leaks, broken shifter springs, few accessories, clutch slippage or complicated oil filter changes. Much to my surprise, Harley riders wave to me while riding the Le Mans. The outlaw days are over for Harley and my only concern is when they will glut the market. I bought my Lemans because I missed having a Guzzi and I wanted the performance and the European flair. End of rant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I love my Le Mans but in defense of Harley I will have to disagree with all the tongue-in-cheek put downs. The Evolution engines are bulletproof and will do 100,000 miles with normal maintence. There is always a dealer nearby who will guarantee to have your Harley repaired if it needs it. I have an Electraglide Ultra in my garage that has been ridden coast to coast/North to South with zero problems. I had an earlier Evo Harley that was a repeat. Most Harley owners are now even more yuppier than even Guzzi riders in SOCAL; sad, since Harley has become a status symbol and now most middle age riders truck or trailer thier bikes to events. There are still a few hardcore riders who tour and their bikes don't break. No worries of oil leaks, broken shifter springs, few accessories, clutch slippage or complicated oil filter changes. Much to my surprise, Harley riders wave to me while riding the Le Mans. The outlaw days are over for Harley and my only concern is when they will glut the market. I bought my Lemans because I missed having a Guzzi and I wanted the performance and the European flair. End of rant! ....what "all the tongue-in-cheek HD put downs"? Heh ....there was only one vague reference by Mike regarding chrome, and although I'm sure it was in a bit of fun, it's fun and humorous because it's generally a true statement And I don't think that is meant to be perjorative. Just visit any HD boutique and see where the priority lies. And that's not a "bad thing" per se, just a style and personal choice. In fact, this seems to be in alignment with your comments about "HD riders being more YUPPIE than even Guzzi riders" Although I have to admit that anyone equating Guzzi riders with yuppies or rubbies is the furthest thing from a reasonable description of a typical Guzzi owner as I've ever known Few Guzzi owners take 50 mile Poker runs down to the local watering hole as their regular weekend jaunt, or trailer their bikes Obviously this isn't descriptive of all HD riders, but as you point out, a large portion of their customer base do fit this description, and IMHO that's too bad as I think they're missing out on what motorcycling is all about. But as always, to each their own, and if it's what makes them happy and they aren't hurting anyone... well Anyway, back on topic.... yes the PC can make a great difference in smoother throttle response, and in tuning your bike to work well with a variety of modifications. In theory the M15 ECU should be enough to tune the bike to work with any reasonable modification, but the problem is that in the USA there aren't enough shops with the software and experience to tune the M15 and the Guzzi optimally. However, there are a plethora of good Certified Dynojet Tuning Centers. If you were in Europe, the need for the PCIII might be less, as they have more shops like TLM that have experience remapping the ECU itself. Since we have an open loop EFI system, remapping is mandatory if you've significantly changed the intake or exhaust system... as the system cannot dynamically adjust the air/fuel mixture. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 My neighbor just bought a new Harley also and installed the same mufflers himself and the dealer told him that if the headers turned blue he would need to remap the bike. I was just quoting your statement which was about your neighbors bike. If the dealer put on a set of different pipes and then they turned blue from running too lean, wouldn't you be pissed that your pipes turned blue from running lean? How about checking the CO and adjusting the fuel mixture to prevent the pipes from turning blue? It seems to me the dealer that your neighbor goes to is not doing him a favor. Humm, I remember years ago when dealers were trying to figure out how the keep the Harley pipes from turning color. Better chrome, double walled exhaust pipes, richer jetting.... End of rant! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 and I'd just like to add that if my bike was worth more than I make in a year, I'd trailer it too. Also, if I was heading for a rallye more than 2000 miles away, I might consider a trailer, too. AND, to be the devil's advocate, most of the folk trailering Guzzi's do so cause they have more bikes than they can ride or they don't feel like riding their bacon slicer 1000 miles, which is a pretty legitimate reason. I suspect Harley riders may also have legitimate reasons like, two wheels and a fifth of bourbon do''nt ride well together. In any case the PC will make any V11 run better. Of course if your bike is running 95% optimum the extra improvement will be minimal and not worth the money, but if you are getting Air to Fuel ratios ranging from 11:1 to 17:1 and your bike is 'tuned' than it will be worth every penny. attached is my before and after: (Granted my 2 into 1 Quat-D muffler was more different from stock than what you are likely to put on, but the point is that it is pretty clear that without the PC map the bike needed something more than the stock ECU could deliver) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerroldt Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Mike: I didn't mean any disrespect with my earlier post. I guess that I took it the wrong way. I have ridden most of my life and have never trailered a bike. I am really dis-enchanted with Harley because of what their target market has become. It seems now that Harley people care more about clothing and social functions than riding and have become a wine and cheese crowd. However their increased sales has led to an almost "no maintenance" motorcycle which is a good thing if you are a serious rider, plus most new Harley owners have no mechanical ability. The dealers victimize us with $1000/$2000 markups over retail and 10 percent over retail on accessories just because they can do it. In the eighties after the family bought AMF out, we had great rallies with big name bands and at least 3 National rallies per year to ride to. Now, you have to join up with a factory ride from somewhere to somewhere, for the commaraderie I guess but without the amenities. Less expense for the factory. Also, you can't get a personal reply to an email anymore but they still want that $35 per year club fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pasturej Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I have a 2002 Le Mans with carbon Mistral cans. I fitted a PCIII a few weeks ago and the most noticeable change to me was the increased fuel consumption, up from a fairly steady 43 miles per imperial gallon to 45-46, achieved on a daily 140 mile commute (mostly motorway cruising at between 80-100 with a 5 mile high revs B road blast and similar distance of stop start city traffic each way). Next step is to either fit pods or do the open airbox thing - I guess the flexibility offered by the PCIII will come into its own then. By the way, for anyone in the UK thinking of getting a power commander, my PCIII USB came from Todd at Guzzitech in the US and worked out about £80-100 cheaper than buying here even after shipping. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Werner Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 My Rosso Corsa had an annoying hiccup/cough at about 3,000 RPM and also ran sort of ratty when going slow in first gear. The PC III cured the problem so I love it! I suppose the ECU could have been remapped but two different dealers told me that wouldn't work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtucker Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 IMHO, if you are going to spend the bucks on a PC, then you might as well go the extra mile and have a Dynojet shop properly tune it for you. I had a PC on my Ducati and it was fine. Then I took it to Ferracci and had them put it on the dyno and create a custom map - and it made a significant difference - more power accross the board, and an additional 5 or so HP at peak - just from tuning the PC. I haven't done the PC on the Guzzi (yet), but I'm not opposed to it. My experience with it on the Duc has been favorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 The dyno tuning doubles the value of the PC for most people. There are of course exceptions where the tuning does not make it better. But just putting some other bike's map on your bike is a gamble. Also, I believe there are limitations on the accuracy of the emmission sniffer, ie if the sniffer is not deep enough in the muffler, or it just reads wrong. Ideally it would read the temperature in the combustion chamber, but that is not possible. Most people will find a little more power, smoother transition of power whether accellerating or decellerating, and increased fuel consumption. I lost about one MPG, but if MPG is your concern you can always have a map done for fuel efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 When I got around to installing the PC111 , I already had Mistral cans ,stooki crossover & K&N pods. There was only 2 places in this area that would dyno tune , one was HD place that wouldn't touch the Guzzi & the other place was jap crotch rocket dealer that made me feel real nervous . Gruff but loveable Mike loaded a map that he got from Todd & the results were mind boggling, it would pull the front end off the ground 3 to 4 ft with just throttle in first gear.I lost a couple of mpg but the performance improvment was more benificial to me. I can only imagine what it would have been like with a proper dyno tune. I'd like to add that Todd at guzzitech offered to hold the guys hand at the jap place to make me a custom map ,but I just felt uneasy with those guys.I also swapped the pc111 on my sport to my Quota with no changes & rode it around & it run a hell of lot better too.My opinion which I know doesn't mean shit to most of you is that you really owe it yourself to try one If I had a laptop I could do this myself ( thats how easy it is to change maps ) They now have a gizmo that uses a 9 volt battery that allowes you to load maps off your pc in you trailer & go to your shop & down load a new map The new USB model is even more flexible Theres no substitute for a custom map , but you can get pretty close with the availble maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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