Kickstand lower bolt size

[Purloined]

It has seemed as though my 2000 V11 has been listing to port excessively the past several months; looking more and more like the Costa Concordia minus the water and if the ship's kickstand was on its starboard side.  I thought it was a normal angle, but realized there was a lot of weight on the stand.  Hands and knees examination revealed the lower bolt fastening the kickstand assembly to the blind hole in the casing had sheered off and the geometry adjusted accordingly. 

Does anyone happen to know the pitch/length of this bolt?  I'm bringing it into an auto shop a friend runs who'll try to extricate what's left and it would help if he knew in advance. 

Thanks in advance. 

[docc]

This bad dog/ Achilles' Heel, yes?

[docc]

I'm getting M6 x 30 (mm long)/ GU98620330. Still looking for thread pitch . . . [edit: likely thread pitch is 1.0]

At this point, you will have to assess if the cast bracket has been deformed. If so, press it (perhaps with heat off the bike) to bring the two fastener bosses back into parallel alignment. Don't expect the bolts to reshape a bent bracket. The sump spacer is at risk of breaking out, here.

Also, the large upper bolt has a stunning torque value and is often found loose: 70-75 Nm!

[gstallons]

The #s sound good & I would use a good anti-seize lube !

[docc]

1 minute ago, gstallons said:

The #s sound good & I would use a good anti-seize lube !

What with these two fasteners having a reputation for loosening and failing, isn't this a proper place for something like LocTite Blue thread locker?

[docc]

FWIW, the bolt shown in this documented sump spacer casting failure looks too short. Certainly not 30mm, and too short to engage all of the threads into the depth of the casting (only about 12mm). Thank you to @EnduroGuzzi for this original (2008) posting and images!    

[Purloined]

Super. 

I launched, kickstand down (skimmed, not hard) at least a couple of times. (The sidestand warning mechanism is non-functional on my bike for reasons I have not been able to figure out.) That my ass has been kicked a couple of times is unsettling and a pathetic failure. One time it was remarked on by a pedestrian. A good sidewalk filled with good people in a town in Connecticut. 

I presumed I was the reason for the sheared bolt. I bet a lot of force for the split second it takes for you to realize that you are a carless nincompoop while the bike does its lever-moves-the-world practice round. 

Thank you for scrutiny of the upper bolt.   I have been very careful and gentle putting it on it's stand, it is unsettling to watch it stretch. I should check. 

[docc]

The "skims" notwithstanding, this is one of the V11's chief Achilles' Heels. As these fasteners loosen over time with use and vibration, the entire Rube Goldberg Sidestand mechanism becomes compromised and vulnerable to failure.

This concern is referenced in the "Tank Off Maintenance Checklist."  I added this concern, also, to the "Wheels Off Maintenance Checklist."

These fasteners of our sidestand bracket do not suffer neglect . . .

 

[Purloined]

The busted off casting image will flash in my head tonight.  

[Purloined]

Docc,

You think the bolt could have backed out and then snapped because the assembly is floating off the case and the side stand  has more leverage?

It broke a few fractions inside the blind hole. Would make sense. 

[Lucky Phil]

FWIW the later bikes used an M8 bolt and Daytonas and possibly Centauros didn't use any secondary bolt at all just a very similar bracket with the large bolt. You can't discount morons that sit on their bike using it as some sort of chair supported by the kickstand. I have zero sympathy for these people when the side stand fails on any bike.

Phil

[billgreenman1]

I've gotten so used to seeing my bike nestled in her Baxley Sport Chock that whenever I put her on the side stand I kinda hold my breath and pray even though the stand is solid ( just checked).

[docc]

10 hours ago, Purloined said:

Docc,

You think the bolt could have backed out and then snapped because the assembly is floating off the case and the side stand  has more leverage?

It broke a few fractions inside the blind hole. Would make sense. 

The tip appears to show the typical taper of starter threads and the bolt looks to be maybe 12mm long. There also look to be unused threads in the bottom of the hole in the casting.

I really can't see how that bolt could have even threaded in at all. Measuring the sidestand contraption and bracket, the bolt has to go 20mm before reaching the casting leaving only 10 mm to thread in.

I wonder if there is room to install a 40mm bolt there . . .

 

 

[Purloined]

Thanks, Docc and everyone for information and advice and images.

Hopefully Stuart Brainerd is able to extricate what's left of the bolt without destroying the threaded hole in the casting. I agree, it looks under-engineered. 

[Pressureangle]

FWIW the sidestand bracket is a machined forging. I looked at making them in billet, but it's a complicated form and prohibitively expensive. Improved sidestand arrangement is still in the back of my mind.