floppy crossover Fixed!

[al_roethlisberger]

I personally like the non-crossover 2002 and earlier exhausts on the V11 Sports. I think it's a cleaner solution aesthetically on the front of the engine, but that's just me

 

I'm sure others think the 2003+ with the crossover however is just spiffy, and that's OK as well

 

 

Regarding performance, it may help a bit, but I doubt it's dramatic on it's own. Any significant benefit is probably gained in combination with the other changes as of '03. I suspect similar or greater results can be gained by tinkering elsewhere on the older bikes

 

 

But I'm very happy to see this solution posted, as I know others have asked about it before, and other than recommendations to just "shim it"... we didn't have anything so apparently well sorted as this.

 

BTW, I wouldn't be too worried about the heat expansion issues. I could be wrong of course, as I haven't personally tested this modification, but it looks reasonable and safe to me.

 

Excellent work

 

al

[Guest turtle]

I certainly have no leaks with the socket shim and see no potential for leaks. I performed a non scientific test to see whether the socket shims induced some stress in the system during heating. I tightened the shims cold then went for a half hour ride. When I returned, I released the hot clamps and looked and listened for movement. The crossover seemed to be in an unstressed position.

 

Admittedly, a big drawback to the socket shim is the cost as I paid about $100 for my set .

[Keith Foster]

Admittedly, a big drawback to the socket shim is the cost as I paid about $100 for my set .

Turtle, I see you are in MD, as I am. You can count me in on a set of the socket shims. As my bike is still a week or so away, I'm not in any hurry. But this kind of thing annoys me and this looks like a good fix. Contact me off line whenever you get an order together and when you need the money. Hopefully with a half dozen or so orders the cost can come down. Did you get your V11LM from Speed's Cycle?

[Guest northend]

I think i'm going to leave mine alone, you can move mine some but it doesn't appear to be leaking and the expansion has got me thinking . I did loosen the lead pipes and the rest of the exaust and squeese them tighter together when I replaced the crossover and the end cans. This did help to get a tighter fit on the balance pipe

As long as its not leaking I feel the movement may be a good thing

 

My two cents worth.......Jeff H.

[Guest Le Man]

I go back to the time a friend of mine and a fellow 996 owner was tightening his cam belts. He got them nice and tight and felt safe because they wouldn't slip off. When he started the engine and the aft cylinder expanded, the belt (which didn't expand) broke. Now the wisdom for the "loose enough to twist" method became clear to us . I would be afraid that in an assembly composed of many different materials with their own expansion rates and the sideways orientation of the crossover pipe that the attempt to "correct" the fit of the pipe may lead to bad things. I have heat gunned my whole system and find a wide array of temperatures on the system while in operation which, in turn, must change yet again, while riding or riding in the rain.

I would love to hear from "Guzzi on this but I don't expect that will happen.

 

Mike

IBA#15554

'03 Le Mans

'02 KTM 200 EXC

'99 KLR 650

[Guest turtle]

That’s it; I’m pulling out the math. Stainless steel expands at 17um/m/ºC. If the exhaust goes from 20ºC to 200ºC then and the crossover is .25m long, 0.25M X 180ºC X 17.2um/m/ºC = 774um = .774 mm =.03in.

 

.774 mm, I can flex the headers apart by 10 times that with little effort.

[Guest Le Man]

Let us know how it works out.

 

Mike

[Guest Fonzarelli]

For what it's worth, I paid a grand total of $42.00 for a set of crossover gaskets from my local MG dealer.

 

Pretty expensive, I thought.

 

However, when I adjust the valves I like to use the front alternator nut to index the cam. This requires the loosening and removal of one side of the pipe.

 

A reusable type of shim and gasket sounds very benificial.

[Guest turtle]

I have logged 300 mi on the shims with no leaks or troubles so far. Some quotes came in for shim pricing. I am a mechanical engineer so I have a few shops at my disposal but the results don’t look good so far. For the first set of shims I supplied the machinist with material and even bored out much of the ID. The best quote for full part fabrication is as follows.

 

4sets for $121 each

6sets for $103 each

10sets for $86

 

If there are more then ten people interested then I will get a new quote. But After 10 I don’t think there will be a dramatic change in price until much larger quantities. Email me if You’re interested so that I know what Price break we could manage. Don’t forget about shipping and Handling. If you have the capability of doing this yourself or know a machinist, I will attache an AutoCAD file for you to use.

 

Thanks, Aaron Bard

[dgpmerc]

Is there any chance another run of these could be made? I know this is from a very old post but wondering if others on this forum would have an interest in restarting this?

[al_roethlisberger]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:23 PM, dgpmerc said:

Is there any chance another run of these could be made? I know this is from a very old post but wondering if others on this forum would have an interest in restarting this?

 

Probably not from the original folks involved since they haven't been active for a loooooong time, and the thread is almost 20 years old   

 

That might be a record for a thread resurrection!  

 

That being said, there is a dimensional drawing in the first posts of the thread, and if that is accurate you could possibly take that to a machine shop and have them made.

 

Or... I just discovered that MPH cycles makes these!   So you may just be in luck

 

https://mphcycles.com/v11-spine-frame-exhaust-crossover-gaskets/

 

 

[docc]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:23 PM, dgpmerc said:

Is there any chance another run of these could be made? I know this is from a very old post but wondering if others on this forum would have an interest in restarting this?

 

4 minutes ago, al_roethlisberger said:

Probably not from the original folks involved since they haven't been active for a loooooong time, and the thread is almost 20 years old   

That might be a record for a thread resurrection!  

That being said, there is a dimensional drawing in the first posts of the thread, and if that is accurate you could possibly take that to a machine shop and have them made.

I can only think that @Pressureangle could make this happen.  As much trouble as these crossovers caused early on, I can't imagine how "floppy" they might be now.

And the (outdated) opinion that they get loose, but won't fall out?

Uh, yeah, the crossover can actually fall out and go bounding zither&tither as following bikes deal with the event (SSR X/ 2014) . . .

 

[Pressureangle]

I had a look at the part, it's certainly something we could make. We're in expansion mode right now and alternating between 'buried' and 'catching up'. I haven't even been able to get the plastic balance rod knobs made yet. 

[al_roethlisberger]

17 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

I had a look at the part, it's certainly something we could make. We're in expansion mode right now and alternating between 'buried' and 'catching up'. I haven't even been able to get the plastic balance rod knobs made yet. 

I think everyone may have missed my edit to my post above which was:

 

Quote

Or... I just discovered that MPH cycles makes these!   So you may just be in luck 

 

https://mphcycles.com/v11-spine-frame-exhaust-crossover-gaskets/

 

 

So it appears that MPH already makes them 

 

[80CX100]

This is a timely topic.

With the low euro exchange rate, I ordered a crossover & muffler from Mistral last year,it worked out very well;regrettably I wasn't aware of the floppy crossover issue or I would've ordered a set of their non crossover header pipes at the same time.

I've been preoccupied with other matters so I haven't done it yet,but I was intending on picking up a set of Mistral Header pipes,but then you end up going down the rabbit hole requiring new exhaust collars from MGCycle,or cutting the oem pipes because the oem collars are captured on the headers,gaskets,etc.

My front header crossover & gaskets are fine,sealed well, working perfect,but I'm sure that's only because the bike has never had serious miles put on it,only 6K.

From researching it,I'm certain that I'll have the floppy crossovers sooner rather than later;Murphy tells me it will be right in the middle of riding season,I'd love to take preemptive action or have a solution in hand to address the problem.

Tks Al for posting that link,first I've heard of it,has anyone used the MPH solution,yeh or nay on it?