Eraldo makes 'em go, go, go

[belfastguzzi]

Have you seen this moto-euro article?

[al_roethlisberger]

Yeah, Victor(ex LeMans owner, and FBF employee) sent this arti-visement around to various mailing lists last Fall

 

It's a very interesting article to be sure though, and after receiving it, I was curious about some points in the article and how they compared with the valves I installed from Mike Rich(TiN coated), and his pistons I was about to buy.

 

The following was Mike's response:

 

 

HEY AL : THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP -  HORSE POWER FIGURES SEEM TO BE RATHER EXAGERATED--- PERHAPS SOME ONE HAS FOUND THE GAIN KNOB ON THE DYNO

 

YOU HAVE 47MM INLET  39.5 MM EX VALVES - THE DIFFERENCE IN FLOW THROUGH OUT ALL LIFT RANGES BETWEEN THE 40MM EX AND 39.5 MM A BIG FAT ZERO[The FBF "big valve" kit apparently only supplies a larger exhaust valve].  ON THE GUZZI EXHAUST  BACK SHAPE HAS MORE TO DO WITH FLOW THAN THE .5MM DIAMETER INCREASE

 

IV'E TEST FBF'S VALVES AND AM UN -IMPRESSED. FBF'S VALVES ARE MADE BY RACE ENGINE VALVES CO. (REV) I HAD TO DO A BUNCH OF EXTRA WORK TO MAKE THESE VALVES WORK. ( THEY WERE SUPPLIED BY A CUSTOMER WITH HIS HEADS) 

 

AS FAR AS PISTONS GO MINE ARE FAR DIFFERENT AND ARE DONE 2 WAYS DROP IN ( NO CRANK REBALANCE REQ'D )  AND LIGHT WEIGHT FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GO ALL OUT AND DONT WANT TO RUN RACE GAS----- FUTURE WILL BE AVAILABLE UP TO 13 TO ONE COMPRESSION FORE RACING APPLICATIONS.

 

HOPE ALL IS WELL IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS- DID YOU COPMLETE YOUR TWIN PLUG SET UP ? HAVE TO GET BACK TO WORK --------- MIKE RICH

 

 

 

Of course, one has to recognize that FBF and Mike are in a somewhat competitive arrangement, so one should take both perspectives with their relative "grain of salt"

 

However, given Mike's reputation in the "go fast" Guzzi community, I tend to trust his perspective.

 

Of course, to be fair, FBF has quite a positive reputation in the Ducati crowd as well, so

 

 

Anyway, just another perspective, especially when one realizes that this is more than just an objective article, and some degree of promotion.

 

From what I understand, TLM has also put together a 100rwhp Sport, but the investment was very high.

 

al

 

 

 

p.s.

 

For those interested, Mike doesn't recommend anything higher than 10.5/1(true) compression for the street, and really recommends that one keep around 10 to avoid detonation(pinging) issues. Although the FBF pistons are marketed as 11/1, he is quite certain that given the notoriously overstated compression ratios for the stock pistons/chamber, that the FBF units are much less than advertised. No big deal, but important to realize.

 

The reason higher comp ratios aren't recommended is the stock MG V11 combustion chamber is fraught with "hot spots" and a poor squish band implementation that enhances detonation problems. Mike's pistons are designed to address both of these issues, and also remove the domed OEM piston shadow effect, thus negating the need for dual-plugging(wish I had known that before ).

 

Anyway, just good alternative info to know... especially since Mike doesn't advertise in any way other than his sponsorship for the Land Speed Record Guzzi guys/gals(www.cookedgoose.org) he does work for, and word of mouth.

 

He couldn't keep up anyway if his work were more widely known.... it takes him weeks to get to each job as it is

[Janusz]

I am not usually impressed with all kinds of theoretical divagations but rather prefer to follow my own senses. Nobody really needs dyno graphs, horsepower tables or computerized projections to tell if one bike handles better then the other, sounds more exciting or can be ridden faster with less difficulty.

 

I rode my Guzzi for over two years stock and tried at least four different intake/exhaust configurations. None of these satisfied me as much as FBF cans with open airbox and proper map plus Stucchi X-over. I don't even want to know why, I am just glad that this bike performs now exactly how I always expected it to perform.

 

Here i am, a happy man .

[Baldini]

I am not impressed with ...theoretical divagations

Me neither...well I'm sure I won't be when I find out what they are

[belfastguzzi]

I am not usually impressed with all kinds of theoretical divagations but rather prefer to follow my own senses. Nobody really needs dyno graphs, horsepower tables or computerized projections to tell if one bike handles better then the other, sounds more exciting or can be ridden faster with less difficulty.

True enough.

 

Thing is I'm pretty much on my own here, so have to get information secondhand from somewhere/anywhere. I've no means of comparing bits and pieces at first hand – at the moment anyway.

 

Looking forward to V.11 rally in England, June. Maybe one of those MG Ti set-ups will turn up there.

 

Thanks to Al for pointing out nature of the 'advertisement' article.

You're clearly impressed with your stuff, Janusz. I don't need more speed, but I would like to free-up some good-natured sound and get the thing pulling smoother through 4-5.000 rpm. The Guzzi exhaust would seem a good bet too, if one can be got, but I'm worried about the need to have final set-up done by a dealer with the right equipment. There's none here. I need something that can be done at home and then maybe by a dealer who can make adjustments with a PCommander.

 

{Exciting news. I've just had an e-mail from someone near-by who has got hold of a black Centauro. So: another Guzzi at last.}

[Guest MotoMessiah]

Did I read that correctly - nearly 700 clams for FBF slip ons? Yeoowsa!

[dlaing]

I talked to the Moto Euro bike's owner and one of his buddies who rode it and both said the bike was awesome with power everywhere.

Dyno shoot outs are ego trips not for everyone, but it would probably be the only way we would know for sure.

Personally I think we should trust Ferracci's results (give or take a couple HP)until proven otherwise.

If we were alll looking just for HP none of us would buy Guzzis, but more Power is fun to pursue.

Reliability is another issue.

[al_roethlisberger]

I talked to the Moto Euro bike's owner and one of his buddies who rode it and both said the bike was awesome with power everywhere.

Dyno shoot outs are ego trips not for everyone, but it would probably be the only way we would know for sure.

Personally I think we should trust Ferracci's results (give or take a couple HP)until proven otherwise.

If we were alll looking just for HP none of us would buy Guzzis, but more Power is fun to pursue.

Reliability is another issue.

 

I'm sure you are correct, and again, I don't mean to disparage FBF's efforts or honesty. Several people here have installed or ridden an FBF piston equipped bike with very satisfactory results. And of course, the airbox lid eliminator is very popular

 

I'd really love to see most of the more popular modifications tested in a vacuum on a stock bike by themselves, back to back with other similar products, whether that be pistons, intake mods, crossovers, etc.... as that would help many people figure out what works best for their needs.

 

However, 95rwhp up from 75ish with really nothing more than some slipons and pistons seems a bit optimistic... and saying they could get 140rwhp out of one, well....

 

Anyway, I'm sure it could be in the 90rwhp range easily, and who knows it could be indeed a true 95rwhp bike.... I'm just a bit incredulous, but maybe that's just me

 

John has about 90rwhp without new slugs, so who knows. But then again, he's done a lot to that engine as well...

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ic=910&hl=rosso

 

 

But knowing how Dynos can vary grossly, when we have such "low output" bikes that we are counting 3-5hp differences as significant(as opposed to 100+ rwhp bikes that count 10hp as significant), I always put my "helmet of incredulity" upon my brow

 

I'm just offering some thought on the issue.

 

al

[droydx]

Does anyone have experience in comparing the Stucchi X over vs the FBF X-over?

They look to be pretty much the same layout. I know the reputation of the Stucchi x-over (it works, but get a straight one), if the FBF X-over works, and fits right the first time, then that would be a selling factor for me.

[Guest northend]

I've heard alot of people complain about the stucchi.

I went with the FBF crossover and it fit well. It fits very close to everything so the best thing to do is loosen ALL of the exaust, get everything adjusted, then snug everything down. Make sure you get new clamps, mine did'nt come with any. I used a sharp chisel, cut the old ones off the stock crossover and reused them and they worked fine.

 

Hope this helps..........Northend

[badmotogoozer]

Instead of a chisel, just drill the spot weld out. Leaves a small hole that is easily rotated to hide and doesn't make the mess a chisel does. I did this to reuse my clamps.

 

Ryan

[Janusz]

Stucchi comes with the clamps ...

 

In my case it also fit perfectly with stock pipes AND Ferraci pipes as well. As a stand alone improvement Stucchi made wonders in getting rid of 4000 RPM dip,was way lighter and more elegant looking then stock.

[droydx]

Thanks for the cross over info. Seems like they are equivilent, minus the clamps, and that's a good tip about drilling the spotweld . Gotta sell some older bike crud to raise the coin now!