Newly acquired '03 V11 Sport

[LaGrasta]

Let me ask this. Can oil leak from around the chrome vent pipe that protrude from the top of the engine? Outside of that, there isn't any other place to leak, except the cylinder itself.

[docc]

12 minutes ago, LaGrasta said:

Let me ask this. Can oil leak from around the chrome vent pipe that protrude from the top of the engine? Outside of that, there isn't any other place to leak, except the cylinder itself.

Yes, the connector pipe for the vent tube has a gasket and can leak, but usually down through the clutch housing and out the lower weep hole behind the engine.

There are other leak sources up top including the oil feed lines to the heads and the O-ring/ sealing surface of the distributor blanking plate. 
 

Oil leaking and blowing back from a failed steering damper seal will wet this area, as well.

[LaGrasta]

I found a bolt to plug the dipstick hole, just until my used ebay unit arrives. With that plugged, I hosed off the oil, then used an air hose to dry. This morning, it looks completely dry. This evening, I plan to blow some baby powder on the top of the engine, fire it up, and see where it's wet.

If it is indeed the cylinder base gasket as I suspect, I'll try to retorque (30 ftlbs) and cross my fingers. If it still leaks, I'll swap gaskets after a new one is ordered.

Week after week, I wait to ride…

[LaGrasta]

Praise report! There are no leaks, everything is tightened up proper. The bike starts, rides, idles as it should. This thing is so fast, anything after 4,000rpm!

One improvement is fork height, within the risers. I have them at 15mm. At 10mm, it was better, but 15mm was dead-on for my liking.

I repeatedly took road bumps trying to better dial in the suspension. I was displeased with the improvements I made in this area. I currently have them set at C6, and R12. It still takes bumps harsh at this setting. Please advise.

[docc]

59 minutes ago, LaGrasta said:

Praise report! There are no leaks, everything is tightened up proper. The bike starts, rides, idles as it should. This thing is so fast, anything after 4,000rpm!

One improvement is fork height, within the risers. I have them at 15mm. At 10mm, it was better, but 15mm was dead-on for my liking.

I repeatedly took road bumps trying to better dial in the suspension. I was displeased with the improvements I made in this area. I currently have them set at C6, and R12. It still takes bumps harsh at this setting. Please advise.

Have you installed correct spring rates (front and rear) for your weight (in gear) and riding style?

That would be Priority One.

[LaGrasta]

I'm the ideal weight for stock springs. With no gear, I'm 170. I should be able to set the sag, then adjust for ride preference.

[LaGrasta]

I rode to work today, 20 miles one way with no issues. I plan to do so the remainder of the week. If all goes well, I'll count the V11 as road worthy.

I noticed at 80mph, RPM is just over 4,000, nearly the same as my V7. This surprised me. Although the V7 feels like it's working hard at that RPM, the V11 feels merely cruising.

[GuzziMoto]

To tell if your spring rates are right is fairly easy. Measure  how much the bike sags with you on it in riding position. Get that sag where it needs to be, usually around 25% of total suspension travel. Then measure how much the bike sags under its own weight, without you on it. Both sag measurements should be from suspension fully extended, that is the baseline. Compare the two different amounts of sag. Typically you want around 25% sag with you on it and 10% sag without you. Some like a little more sag with you on board, maybe 30%. But either way. If you have the right amount of sag with you on the bike but not enough sag when it is just the weight of the bike your spring rate is too soft. The soft spring required too much preload to get sag correct with you on board and thus sag without you on board was too little. If the sag is too much without you on board after getting sag right with you on board your spring rate is too stiff.

The second thing is, for the early V11 forks, the compression adjust does almost nothing. Until the piston in the fork moves past the bleed holes the valving and the adjuster do nothing. All the fork oil simply goes out through the bypass holes. If your V11 has a set of the early 'zook's the adjuster doesn't do anything until you block off those holes. 

A great tip when trying to dial in suspension is to tie a small zip tie around the fork or shock, the smaller the better. Tighten it tight enough that it stays where ever it is put. Slide it all the way against the moving side of the suspension, then ride. That will show you if the suspension is too stiff and not using the travel, leading to a harsh ride, or if the suspension is bottoming because it is using all the travel too easily. Suspension can feel harsh for either reason, it can be hard to tell the difference, but what is needed to be done to fix the issue can be completely different.

[audiomick]

5 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

...If you have the right amount of sag with you on the bike but not enough sag when it is just the weight of the bike your spring rate is too soft. The soft spring required too much preload to get sag correct with you on board and thus sag without you on board was too little. If the sag is too much without you on board after getting sag right with you on board your spring rate is too soft.

 

I think there is something wrong here. That seems contradictory.

 

Could it be that the second sentence should have ended with "too hard"?

[GuzziMoto]

16 hours ago, audiomick said:

I think there is something wrong here. That seems contradictory.

 

Could it be that the second sentence should have ended with "too hard"?

No, that is correct. If you have sag right with you on the bike but not enough sag under just the weight of the bike that means your spring is too soft. Why that is is because with an overly soft spring you have to add more preload than you should to get the sag right with you on the bike. All that extra preload means that when you get off the bike, and it is now just the weight of the bike, there is very little sag because of all that preload you dialed in.

It can be counter-intuitive. But if you set sag correctly with you on the bike, having not enough sag under just the weight of the bike means that you had to use more preload than you should have used to get your sag correct with you on the bike. That extra preload means less sag under just the weight of the bike. And if you end up with too much sag under just the weight of the bike but sag is right when you are on the bike, that means your spring is too stiff and because of that you needed too little preload to get the sag right with you on the bike. The stiff spring means very little preload, and less preload means more sag when you aren't on the bike then there should be.

[docc]

32 minutes ago, GuzziMoto said:

No, that is correct. If you have sag right with you on the bike but not enough sag under just the weight of the bike that means your spring is too soft. Why that is is because with an overly soft spring you have to add more preload than you should to get the sag right with you on the bike. All that extra preload means that when you get off the bike, and it is now just the weight of the bike, there is very little sag because of all that preload you dialed in.

It can be counter-intuitive. But if you set sag correctly with you on the bike, having not enough sag under just the weight of the bike means that you had to use more preload than you should have used to get your sag correct with you on the bike. That extra preload means less sag under just the weight of the bike. And if you end up with too much sag under just the weight of the bike but sag is right when you are on the bike, that means your spring is too stiff and because of that you needed too little preload to get the sag right with you on the bike. The stiff spring means very little preload, and less preload means more sag when you aren't on the bike then there should be.

This "soft spring, too much preload" is exactly what happened when I tried to set my fork preload with the original springs. The downside (lowside?) is that the forks ran out of "reach" (topped out) while leaned maximally over in a corner and the camber of the road changed to negative. The forks extended all they had, but it wasn't enough to hold the road. (One contributor in an other wise perfect storm.)

[LaGrasta]

I rode again today, still monitoring everything. All is still well.

As for the forks, they are fine on the road at travel, but slowly going over bumps, they are harsh. Fork travel seems is only 2-3 inches of "slide". I would have thought there was more.

[GuzziMoto]

19 minutes ago, LaGrasta said:

I rode again today, still monitoring everything. All is still well.

As for the forks, they are fine on the road at travel, but slowly going over bumps, they are harsh. Fork travel seems is only 2-3 inches of "slide". I would have thought there was more.

There is nearly 5" of travel in the front forks of a V11. That is from fully extended to fully compressed. If you support the bike properly and raise the front wheel off the ground you should have nearly 5" (something like 120mm) of the smaller diameter fork tube exposed. That tells you how much actual total suspension travel you have.

When the weight of the bike is on the suspension, that nearly 5" of travel would compress. If your fork springs are the correct rate, the front forks should compress around a 1/2" or so under just the weight of the bike. That would be 10% of 5" / 120mm. That should leave over 4" of travel, easily measured by measuring how much of the smaller fork tube is exposed. Full suspension travel in "upside down forks" is reached right before the smaller fork tube is pushed all the way into larger upper tube. Thus, measuring how much smaller fork tub is exposed tells you how much suspension travel is left.

Some people like to have more sag under just the weight of the bike, maybe upwards of 20%. So that would mean nearly an inch of sag under just the weight of the bike. That would still leave nearly 4" of suspension travel left. If you run extra sag, you will have to adjust your target sag with you on the bike as well. And you will have less suspension travel to absorb bumps, but you gain droop, suspension extension. I would rather have more compression stroke of my suspension. But to each their own. Also, I think it is a good idea to balance front and rear sag. Often only rear sag is easily adjustable. I would set rear preload so rear sag is comparable to front sag. If rear sag is excessive compared to front sag that means riding down the road you will have poor balance and more relaxed rake than you should have. If you have less rear sag than front sag balance is still off, in the other direction, and the actual rake while riding down the road will be more aggressive.

[guzzler]

3 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

There is nearly 5" of travel in the front forks of a V11. That is from fully extended to fully compressed. If you support the bike properly and raise the front wheel off the ground you should have nearly 5" (something like 120mm) of the smaller diameter fork tube exposed. That tells you how much actual total suspension travel you have.

When the weight of the bike is on the suspension, that nearly 5" of travel would compress. If your fork springs are the correct rate, the front forks should compress around a 1/2" or so under just the weight of the bike. That would be 10% of 5" / 120mm. That should leave over 4" of travel, easily measured by measuring how much of the smaller fork tube is exposed. Full suspension travel in "upside down forks" is reached right before the smaller fork tube is pushed all the way into larger upper tube. Thus, measuring how much smaller fork tub is exposed tells you how much suspension travel is left.

Some people like to have more sag under just the weight of the bike, maybe upwards of 20%. So that would mean nearly an inch of sag under just the weight of the bike. That would still leave nearly 4" of suspension travel left. If you run extra sag, you will have to adjust your target sag with you on the bike as well. And you will have less suspension travel to absorb bumps, but you gain droop, suspension extension. I would rather have more compression stroke of my suspension. But to each their own. Also, I think it is a good idea to balance front and rear sag. Often only rear sag is easily adjustable. I would set rear preload so rear sag is comparable to front sag. If rear sag is excessive compared to front sag that means riding down the road you will have poor balance and more relaxed rake than you should have. If you have less rear sag than front sag balance is still off, in the other direction, and the actual rake while riding down the road will be more aggressive.

Thanks again mate.

I just went out and checked mine...

I have 100mm or just over it (wasn't too pedantic about it) with the bike on the side stand so looks like spring rate is correct as I suspected after having the forks upgraded.

Cheers Guzzler  

[LaGrasta]

ok, i just ran out of the office to measure my forks (slider exposure). At rest, chrome is 4.25" and measuring the oil/debris/slide marks, travel looks to be 2".