Installing oil temperature sensor

[Tomchri]

[*Moderator note: This thread is created from replies to an original comment, italicized below, by @p6x in the "Formotion clock fit" thread. *]

June 28, 2021, @p6x said:

I am considering the installation of an RTD or Thermocouple based Oil Temperature indicator. I know that the oil temperature information is unnecessary. I am simply interested in finding a way to do it. I would like to get that information on the dashboard, so the oil combined thermometer dipstick is not what I am looking for.

 

One way to use gas flow rate, is to measure pressure, differential pressure across a known orifice, and of course temperature taken in the gas stream. Before electronics took over, we used RTD devices, which were completely mechanical.

 

I found what I was looking for in Europe, now what I need to devise, is where to connect the temperature probe on the Guzzi.

 

But its another thread I guess.

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June 28, 2021, @Tomchrireplied:

You could use the drain plug for the oil temp sensor.

Cheers Tom.

[docc]

54 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

You coud use the drain plug for the oil temp sensor.

Cheers Tom.

In fact, the V11 has a secondary plug above, to the right, of the drain (leftover from the earlier Sport 1100 that had two return lines from the crankcase venting into the frame's spine).

[Tomchri]

Even better,  2 of my bikes came with the plugs modified.

Cheers Tom.

[docc]

15 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

Even better,  2 of my bikes came with the plugs modified.

Cheers Tom.

Modified how?

[Tomchri]

See if I can produce some pictures tomorrow, out of the garage for once.

Cheers Tom.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, docc said:

In fact, the V11 has a secondary plug above, to the right, of the drain (leftover from the earlier Sport 1100 that had two return lines from the crankcase venting into the frame's spine).

This is perfect. Do you know the size and thread pitch of the plug?

If it is a the threads are parallel, then there is an o'ring to seal. If the threads are conical, then I just need to install a nipple that fits the hole on one side, and the capillary on the other.

The challenge is those threaded holes are metric. What I found metric requires a 10mm diameter hole.

The easy way, since 5/8" UNF seems the standard, would be to find an adapter Guzzi threaded hole Male, by 5/8" UNF female. If you can tell me what size it is, I can start looking for a Male by Female cross-over.

I found a lot of mechanical oil temperature systems for air cooled engines. A lot of them for airplanes.

This is made by Rochester. However the nut is 5/8"-18 UNF, not going to fit a Guzzi.

This is Smith; UK based. Those of you who had Jaguars and Triumph cars will know that brand.

Another 5/8 UNF-18 adaptor, by 3/8" British Standard Pipe

I found this one in Switzerland; the capillary fits M10 x 1.5 mm thread pitch.

 

[p6x]

@Tomchri@docc

I found the drawing from the spare parts catalog. There is a spare hole.

Of course, Guzzi does not tell us the dimensions of the adapter to pipe they use. Once I figure out the specs of item 22, then I can check what crossover I can use to 5/8"-18 UNF, or I can go Smith. It does not matter if the Temperature is in C or F. I am familiar with both scale.

 

[p6x]

@docc

The oil drain plug is m10 x 1mm pitch.

The other plug looks larger in diameter, maybe M12. But it is only a matter of finding a crossover to either M10 or 5/8" UNF

[docc]

14 minutes ago, p6x said:

@docc

The oil drain plug is m10 x 1mm pitch.

The other plug looks larger in diameter, maybe M12. But it is only a matter of finding a crossover to either M10 or 5/8" UNF

Pretty sure I have that #21 "Reduction" /adapter and can derive the correct threading.

Stand by . . .

 

[docc]

I am getting 15M diameter x 1.50 pitch for the two holes into the back of the sump (not the drain at the bottom). The left is used for the return from the spine frame and uses the adapter for the line (the earlier V11 and the later V11 use different line types, so the adapter/ part # differs), while the right side is blanked with bolt and washer (#22/#25).

Somebody check my work . . .

edit: correction: 16mm x 1.50

[p6x]

@docc I am not certain M15 exists in the Metric standard. It could either be M14 or M16 both with 1.50 mm thread pitch.

The oil drain in the middle of those two threaded holes, what is it for? the main drain is underneath the sump, is it not?

I am asking because this hole is M10, thus, I found one of those mechanical oil temperature gauge which fits an M10 threaded hole.

I found an adapter from M14 x 150 male to 5/8"-18 UNF Female. This would work for the Rochester or Smith gauges.

https://www.bpsracing.com/adaptateur-de-filetage-femelle-5-8-unf-male-m14-1-5.html

[docc]

48 minutes ago, p6x said:

@docc I am not certain M15 exists in the Metric standard. It could either be M14 or M16 both with 1.50 mm thread pitch.

The oil drain in the middle of those two threaded holes, what is it for? the main drain is underneath the sump, is it not?

I am asking because this hole is M10, thus, I found one of those mechanical oil temperature gauge which fits an M10 threaded hole.

I found an adapter from M14 x 150 male to 5/8"-18 UNF Female. This would work for the Rochester or Smith gauges.

https://www.bpsracing.com/adaptateur-de-filetage-femelle-5-8-unf-male-m14-1-5.html

Yes, then the oil returns are more likely 16mm x 1.50.

The main drain is the middle of the three on the back of the sump. There is no drain "underneath."

[Tomchri]

Wrong place for this tread, and bad memory. Had more than 2.
Cheers Tom

Sent fra min SM-A525F via Tapatalk

[p6x]

@Tomchri

Your system works on 12 Volts.

I am looking at something completely mechanical. No wiring modification to implement. I only need to confirm the dimensions of the spare port hole. Then I will need to look for something to go from M16 male to pipe/tube connection on the other side.

The vendor of the Rochester instrument confirmed that theirs require a JIC 5/8"-18 UNF to seal around the capillary.

The other information that would I would appreciate, is the length of capillary I should go for, to set the gauge somewhere at the dashboard level. The gauge diameter is about 51+mm. These gauges are designed to be mounted on a dashboard. I am thinking this should be above the existing Guzzi instruments and lights panel.

The European are all offering a fixed length of about 1800mm

The Rochester comes in four lengths: 48", 60", 72", 144" (1219mm, 1524mm, 1828mm, 3657mm). I can coil the excess underneath the tank (maybe), but it would certainly help to purchase the closest to what I need.

 

[po18guy]

On 6/28/2022 at 8:05 PM, p6x said:

@docc the main drain is underneath the sump, is it not?

That is the "manhole" to access the filter, but the oil drain plug is rear and center.