2000 v11 sport observations and questions

[docc]

3 hours ago, mikev said:

I bought 5 relays on ebay after wading thru the forum relay threads for a while.  Cheap ones from China should arrive in a couple weeks.  Others listed were $20 ea.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115003630292  got 5 for ~$26 with shipping.

Also ordered the manhole cover tool and will change the oil and do some other maintenance after it arrives. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Speedfrog said:

I highly doubt the relays on that listing are the real thing, made in US Omrons that is. Omron label is obscured in picture and no mention of it in description either. In fact it states "unbranded" in "Item specifics"..

Yeah, ink is cheap. Yet, these "may be" the real-deal High Current OMRON. No way to know without prying the case off for a look inside, which likely destroys the part.

Respectable, available, alternative High Current relay made by CIT:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cit-relay-and-switch/a11csq12vdc1-5r/12502892

[Speedfrog]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Yeah, ink is cheap.

Just my personal observation after miss Curiosity pushed me to check that listing.. I know, I know, curiosity killed the cat 

[docc]

10 minutes ago, Speedfrog said:

Just my personal observation after miss Curiosity pushed me to check that listing.. I know, I know, curiosity killed the cat 

That is a very astute observation that this latest ebay listing has the "OMRON" labeling obscured and the declaration, "unbranded."

Unlike the relays @Speedfrog posted in December 2021:

[Speedfrog]

Without any intention of hijacking this thread and turning it into a relay one, I will just say that I spent a lot of time researching suitable relays alternative for the v11 and I would be wary of any relays offering on ebay coming out of China... The ebay vendor I got the Omrons from back in December is still offering them, albeit at twice the price I paid for them.. I think they've learned the value of what they're sitting on..  https://www.ebay.com/itm/162517009426

Aside from the CIT's @docc posted above, here are a few more alternatives I found:

(Disclaimer: Even though I haven't tried these, all specs suggest they would be a good alternative for the V11)

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/picker-components/PC782-1C-12S-R-X/12352866

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electric-works/CM1-12V/647128

[docc]

13 minutes ago, Speedfrog said:

Without any intention of hijacking this thread and turning it into a relay one, I will just say that I spent a lot of time researching suitable relays alternative for the v11 and I would be wary of any relays offering on ebay coming out of China... The ebay vendor I got the Omrons from back in December is still offering them, albeit at twice the price I paid for them.. I think they've learned the value of what they're sitting on..  https://www.ebay.com/itm/162517009426

Aside from the CIT's @docc posted above, here are a few more alternatives I found:

(Disclaimer: Even though I haven't tried these, all specs suggest they would be a good alternative for the V11)

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/picker-components/PC782-1C-12S-R-X/12352866

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electric-works/CM1-12V/647128

Know that "resistive" current ratings will over-rate the relay for "continuous" use.  The "Picker Components" relay looks like a contender, although the NC continuous current rating is not revealed in the data sheet.

The Panasonic, we have evaluated before. It is a quality 10/20 amp continuous relay.  I just would not trust them in 15/25 (NC/NO) V11 circuits.

YMMV

[mikev]

Yeah, I assume they are Chinese knock offs but I thought I'd give them a try before I spend $20 per relay on ebay for the "branded" USA or Canada ones.  There is a seemingly endless chat about relays here, and I saw at least one other person who tried them so hopefully they are ok.  

I will definitely get the Craig DeOxit and silicone grease.  Do you spray both the relays and the ports?  

I'll probably change spark plugs this weekend.  Manual recommends something.  What do you use?

I am very interested in the "Lucky Phil Extender" as the shifter issue is my biggest issue with the bike.  

[docc]

NGK BPR6-ES

[mikev]

Here are the relays I received from ebay.  The description on ebay was "made in USA" but item ships from China.  Took about 2 weeks.  These obviously are "Made in Canada", aye.   I think there are a lot of Chinese knock offs out there, and I've seen Docc recommend elsewhere on the forum to open one of these and seeing what the guts look like.  I'm not sure I'm qualified to do that.  But am willing to sacrifice one and take pics if you want.

Thanks Chuck for the Lucky Phil Extender!  

 

[docc]

The cover is not hard to get off, but always seem to come off in pieces. I suppose the case could be removed with a Dremel® cut-off wheel and epoxied back on to save the relay for use.

Inside the high current OMRON the chassis parts are notably robust along with a the coil windings being substantial (lots of windings), but most notably the coil stands vertical and the resistor is mounted next to it (not underneath) in its own substantial mount. To me, this set-up looks like it would shed heat well.  I haven't inspected the contacts directly, but we have that in Ryalnd3210's post where he compared the OMRON (G8HN not the high current "E") to the popularized Chinese GEI.

CIT 1.2 watt (left) / OMRON G8HE (right):

 

[mikev]

I'll sacrifice one of my Chinese (Canadian) ebay relays and post a pic later this week.  Ordered 5 CITs from onlinecomponents as well, just to be prepared.

Maybe the relay position info is posted somewhere on this forum but I haven't found it yet.  I got a sticky note from a previous owner in my manual that lists them as:

1 - starter

2 - headlight, (I gather from reading this forum its also the tachometer)

3 - sidestand

4 - ECU

5 - Fuel Injection

[docc]

The relay functions are slightly more involved than those basics . . .

[mikev]

ebay uint sacrificed, resistor color bands go left to right, blue to gold - docc's look opposite.  I'm no electrical engineer but that seems like a difference

[docc]

That looks legit to me. I'll defer to our resident sparkies, but seems a resistor could be installed either way,  while a diode is one way only ?

[paulnaz]

  Color bands only signify resistance value. No directional requirement.

    Paul B

[docc]

8 hours ago, mikev said:

I'll sacrifice one of my Chinese (Canadian) ebay relays and post a pic later this week.  Ordered 5 CITs from onlinecomponents as well, just to be prepared.

Maybe the relay position info is posted somewhere on this forum but I haven't found it yet.  I got a sticky note from a previous owner in my manual that lists them as:

1 - starter

2 - headlight, (I gather from reading this forum its also the tachometer)

3 - sidestand

4 - ECU

5 - Fuel Injection

 

6 hours ago, docc said:

The relay functions are slightly more involved than those basics . . .

So, more detail on relay function:

Relay 1 is the Start Relay, but also sends all the current to (multifunctional) Relay 2 through its weaker Normally Closed contact. A cheap “10/20” amp relay in V11 position 1 is not advisable. Also, the 1999-2001 wiring uses the Normally Open contact for the starter while later V11 use the Ignition Switch. Take away: for early V11, use a high current relay in position 1. Later V11 can suffer Startus Interuptus and benefit from an additional (6th) relay for the starter.

[next: relay 2 and 3 breakdown . . . ]