starter won't work

[Guest Warren Rhen]

OK last week I saw somebody posted that they were having a problem exactly like mine. You hit the starter button and ...nothing... no click or anything. The reply(and I can't find it now) said something about doing something to the switch on the handlebars. This has happened several times before but after a short period it would work again. Now it doesn't. I thought it might be the starter relay but I can't find it among the maze of wire etc. under there. Where's the relay and does anybody have any suggestions as to what this problem is?

[Mike Stewart]

Do the lights on the dash come on when the key is turned on?

 

If the lights do come on, try pushing on the starter button while turning the bars lock to lock. If the engine starts to crank, your problem lies in the clutch safty switch circuit. I had this problem from day one on my 03 Rosso. I ended up bypassing the clutch switch by removing the fuel tank and disconnecting the connectors that lead up to the clutch switch and splicing them together (frame side). No problems since then.

 

Mike

[docc]

If the lights don't come on check the fuse for the lights( I think it's fuse 5). The power to the starter solenoid also routes through here. My fuse started to blow after the bike had set a few days. Took out the solenoid and found it had corroded. Cleaned it up, a little grease and no problem since!

[Guest Warren Rhen]

If the lights don't come on check the fuse for the lights( I think it's fuse 5). The power to the starter solenoid also routes through here.

The lights come on. Where's the relay??

[docc]

Warren, here's a picture of the relay set. Starter relay is in the front. Check the starter solenoid mounted to the top of the starter - it may be sticking. Requires #20 and #27 Torx fasteners to dissassemble.

 

relay picture

[Guest pasturej]

Warren

 

I had a similar problem on trying to start my LM this morning. All lights came on except neutral light. No noise from the fuel pump or action from the starter. Flicked the sidestand up, pressed the button and the bike came to life. I guess that this points to some fault around the neutral sensor.

 

Jonathan

[docc]

Since others have reported this neutral switch sticking I always ( 90%) park in gear.

 

The side stand switch bypasses current around the neautral switch and its relay.

[Guest Warren Rhen]

  I ended up bypassing the clutch switch by removing the fuel tank and disconnecting the connectors that lead up to the clutch switch and splicing them together (frame side).  No problems since then. 

Well I'm really lost now because the starter works and I didn't really do anything, and as long as it's working I can't troubleshoot it. However looking at your posts(thanks) and the bike I'm a little confused as to how the system works. How many things are wired into the safety circuit? Clutch lever, kick stand, neutral switch is what I figure. but it seems to me that with the stand down or the clutch in it would be completing a circuit and I'm not sure how neutral works. I'm sometimes easily confused trying to follow some wiring diagrams. What I would like to do is eliminate the clutch switch and since I do have my senior moments I'd like to retain the sidestand switch so do I just do like Mike did and unplug the clutch switch connectors along the frame and run a jump wire to keep them connected all the time and If so will the side stand switch still work? TIA

[al_roethlisberger]

Well I'm really lost now because the starter works and I didn't really do anything, and as long as it's working I can't troubleshoot it.

 

 

....yeah, isn't that how it always goes? <_>

 

 

On the one hand, one hopes the problem never comes back, while on the other hand, you hope you can replicate it so as to deduce it's cause....

 

...in the end, it never comes back, but is never quite solved.... leaving you unsure if it may pop up at some inopportune time

 

This was somewhat what trying to sort out the vapor lock problem was like, and how I feel about this shift spring problem we've been hearing about.

 

I'd feel much better if we had a definitive cause of the failure, and could just replace the part *sigh*

 

Well, good luck tracking it down. My neutral switch has been on holiday for a few months now. Every now and again it checks in, but only to tease

 

al

[docc]

The safety interlocks are confusing.

 

But, basically, the clutch switch is separate. It is wired between the starter button and the starter relay. Look here at the connectors.

 

The sidestand switch and the neutral switch are interfaced and send power to the "run " switch. ( NOT the starter relay). The bike will get power to the ECU in neutral by the neutral switch activating the "SIDESTAND (middle) RELAY."

 

Yes, it's true the "SIDESTAND RELAY" is activated by the NEUTRAL SWITCH not the sidestand switch.

 

Under normal riding the ECU power comes to the "run" switch through the sidestand switch. ( It 'makes' with the stand up).

 

 

Defeating BOTH the sidestand switch AND the clutch switch is a formula for starting your bike up in gear.

[dlaing]

My experience has been relays, relays, relays.

Swapping relays has always fixed my starter problems as well as the problem of my tach and headlight going out.

In an emergency, you should be able to swap one of the other relays for the starter relay.

Assuming the others are matching relays.

If relay swapping does the trick than you will need to order a new relay

http://www.dotnet.com/~pyrodan/relay.htm

Under $5 !!!!!

I wonder what Guzzi charges...

[Guest Bruce]

I had the same problem which drove me crazy as I'd go through everything and it would work so I figured I'd fixed something but sooner or later, always far from home. The big clue is that the head light goes out when you hit the starter button. This means electricity has found its way through most of the maze of wires and switches so then its the relay, the starter, or the wire in between.

 

The relay swap worked like a charm in my case. I found a guy on www.GuzziTech.com, sent him a check, and a few days later I got a new set of relays.

 

Some stuff I learned along the way. If you short the clutch relay you then can:

 

A) Jumper the starter selnoid to the hot lead on the starter ( yes I'd ride around with a jumper I'd made in my pocket in addition to a multi-meter )

 

or

 

Pry the plastic lid off the relay in question and you can mash the contacts together like a starter button

 

It goes without saying if you try this stunt it MUST ABSOLUTELY BE IN NEUTRAL.

 

As best I recall the theory is as follows:

 

When the contacts are coming together the voltage will jump across and will degrade the contact surface over time. Essnetially it works like a spark plug. After awhile the contact resistance goes up and it no longer works. Its a probability deal. When it first starts the chances of the contact landing on a dead spot may be 1 in 10 and you probably don't notice or think you didn't hit the starter button hard enough. As it gets worse it happens more frequently. Dementia kicks in.

 

There is suppose to be circuitry which controls the arcing. To be complete about it I am still not sure if I fixed the symptom or the problem so I keep that jumper in my pocket.

 

My .02, I'd leave that side stand switch alone. The other night while busy fiddling with head light alignment I tried to ride off with it down. This is the second time! Perhaps the rate of senior moments increases as you get older.

[Guest Warren Rhen]

My .02, I'd leave that side stand switch alone. The other night while busy fiddling with head light alignment I tried to ride off with it down. This is the second time! Perhaps the rate of senior moments increases as you get older.

Indeed it does. My big disappointment as I near social sucurity age is that I've always been told as we get older we get wiser, and I'm wondering when that will kick in

[Guest Warren Rhen]

My experience has been relays, relays, relays.

Swapping relays has always fixed my starter problems as well as the problem of my tach and headlight going out.

In an emergency, you should be able to swap one of the other relays for the starter relay.

Assuming the others are matching relays.

If relay swapping does the trick than you will need to order a new relay

http://www.dotnet.com/~pyrodan/relay.htm

This answer raises two more questions. This site says the relays are slightly bigger and thay have a resistor in them to resist voltage spikes.

Question #1 Will this interfer with the seat? would they interfer with an older seat? I have been told that Guzzi replaced some of the older seats under warranty because they interfered with some relays or something. I am looking for a spare seat for mine to have Rich redo into a his/her seat for taking my wife. What seats should I avoid? There's one on e-bay now for a 2000 or 2001.

Question #2 When my starter wouldn't work going down the skyline drive I bump started the bike. I have since been told this is a no-no because of voltage spikes frying the ECU. Is this correct and will the resistor in these new relays prevent this?

[docc]

I recall the fried ECU was an issue with the 16M computer but apparently not the current 15M. Cliff and others can clarify this for us.

 

The relay resistor is only there to protect the relay contacts.

 

The early seats seem to rub on everything under them. I haven't had trouble with mine rubbing the relays but have done lots of relief work and reshaping underneath with the Dremel. The larger Bosch relays fit under it just fine ( they're not much bigger unless this is a different relay from the ealry replacements).