Transmission recall service.

[Lucky Phil]

9 hours ago, MotoKnee said:

My same thought...still getting broken in. MPG is about 38 right now, don't know how much that improves, especially with air filter pods. Smoother shifting would be welcome, but I have an extender ordered also.  Diminished vibrations at the grips would be good, but the Grip Puppies I put on helped out there.

Overall, I couldn't be more pleased with how much I enjoy riding this thing.

The 20,000 klm break in is a bit of a myth in my view. The rings are 90% seated in the first 200klms and nothing else inside the engine needs "breaking in". It just starts wearing out from day 1. There's 2 reasons manufacturers want you to follow a break in process. One is to cover themselves if they've made an assembly error so if something fails they may be able to get away with a repair not a replacement and so owners are guided towards driving conservatively when they first get the car or on the bike because it's in no ones interest that they snot themselves immediately due to unfamiliarity with the machine.

The reason cars and bikes seem to perform better after a few thousand klms is because the rider/driver is more comfortable and subconsciously relaxes and starts to ride/drive in a bit more deliberate fashion. Bigger throttle input rates, faster shifting, harder braking because they're getting more comfortable on the machine. Even clutches and gearboxes don't loosen up anymore.

A race engine isn't given tens of thousands of klms to break in because nobody has the time and it's not necessary. They are built to slightly looser tolerances in some areas to deal with the additional heat generated by running at high engine speeds and loads on the track but it's not a massive amount different to a road engine these days. Many years ago when bore finishes and machining tolerances were pretty poor the break in period was protracted but those days are long long gone and things have gradually been refined even over the last 20 years or so. Once the rings are seated in a few hundred KLMs that's as good as it's going to get. The rest is in the mind.

Phil     

Edited August 9 by Lucky Phil

[docc]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

 The rest is in the mind.

Phil     

Hoping to have mine broken in here, pretty soon.

Not so much the Sport, but "in the mind ", maybe . . .

[MotoKnee]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

The 20,000 klm break in is a bit of a myth in my view. The rings are 90% seated in the first 200klms and nothing else inside the engine needs "breaking in". It just starts wearing out from day 1. There's 2 reasons manufacturers want you to follow a break in process. One is to cover themselves if they've made an assembly error so if something fails they may be able to get away with a repair not a replacement and so owners are guided towards driving conservatively when they first get the car or on the bike because it's in no ones interest that they snot themselves immediately due to unfamiliarity with the machine.

The reason cars and bikes seem to perform better after a few thousand klms is because the rider/driver is more comfortable and subconsciously relaxes and starts to ride/drive in a bit more deliberate fashion. Bigger throttle input rates, faster shifting, harder braking because they're getting more comfortable on the machine. Even clutches and gearboxes don't loosen up anymore.

A race engine isn't given tens of thousands of klms to break in because nobody has the time and it's not necessary. They are built to slightly looser tolerances in some areas to deal with the additional heat generated by running at high engine speeds and loads on the track but it's not a massive amount different to a road engine these days. Many years ago when bore finishes and machining tolerances were pretty poor the break in period was protracted but those days are long long gone and things have gradually been refined even over the last 20 years or so. Once the rings are seated in a few hundred KLMs that's as good as it's going to get. The rest is in the mind.

Phil     

I don't disagree with any of the points you make, especially the engine break-in comments. That seems to be the conventional wisdom for a while now.  

I had no idea whether a gearbox would improve with use, but it seemed worthy of hoping. Your opinion there makes me glad I have an extender ordered and am prepared to follow the process you posted in the shifter mod thread if necessary. Thanks for all of that by the way.

I definitely get better shifting on this bike with a more focused and deliberate technique, my sometimes lazy efforts just don't fly, wanker shifts brought on by more forgiving Japanese bikes I suppose.

All of this verbiage and what I mostly meant with my comment was "yes, I scored a sweet very low mileage bike"!

[Lucky Phil]

23 minutes ago, MotoKnee said:

I don't disagree with any of the points you make, especially the engine break-in comments. That seems to be the conventional wisdom for a while now.  

I had no idea whether a gearbox would improve with use, but it seemed worthy of hoping. Your opinion there makes me glad I have an extender ordered and am prepared to follow the process you posted in the shifter mod thread if necessary. Thanks for all of that by the way.

I definitely get better shifting on this bike with a more focused and deliberate technique, my sometimes lazy efforts just don't fly, wanker shifts brought on by more forgiving Japanese bikes I suppose.

All of this verbiage and what I mostly meant with my comment was "yes, I scored a sweet very low mileage bike"!

Technique wise Pre loading the shift lever in both directions is the secret to sweet shifting on the 6 speed box.

Phil

[motortouring]

For emission testing the restistance of a vehicle is tested with a coast-down procedure. The vehicle is shifted to neutral (or clutch is applied, not completely sure about the exact requirement) at 140km/h and is coasted down to approx. 10km/h.

With this a second order diagram is determined to use on a dynamo-meter.

I do know manufacturers prefere tu use bearings and couplings (CV-joints, differential-gears) that are run-in for 30.000km or more. This reduces the internal friction of of the drive-line.

 

 

[OuijiVeck]

Seat of the pants testing.:

With the "failing transmision" issue, the very prominent SNICK! into 3rg gear was getting my attention  giving me concern even after the confirmation of the service/04 tranny. Somewhere between the 12k mi at purchase and the recent present ....about the last 400mi /15,,000 mi the snick is gone. About 400mi after switching to Red Line too. 

I also switched to OEM Clipons. The VIBRATION is ridiculous. My LM had no such issue though I often read complaints. I presently have foam grip covers. Hate them. Fine at speed but fancy maneuvering on campground grassy conditions. I feel I don't "have a hold" of the fat pig. (Let's face it..these things are no ballerina under 20mph. Add wet grass and tree roots...ugh! ) so any reduction in vibration due to "break in- smooth out " will be noted and reported. I got a 800mi weekend coming up so we'll see. ( *Sportys Iron Duke Saloon* Minerva NY.. A spatering of Guzzis, Beemers and good folks camping out if anyone is in range an interested. Spectacular lonely, well surfaced, un-patrolled 😈 roads) 

 

[docc]

Which RedLine gearoil did you use?

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, OuijiVeck said:

Seat of the pants testing.:

With the "failing transmision" issue, the very prominent SNICK! into 3rg gear was getting my attention  giving me concern even after the confirmation of the service/04 tranny. Somewhere between the 12k mi at purchase and the recent present ....about the last 400mi /15,,000 mi the snick is gone. About 400mi after switching to Red Line too. 

I also switched to OEM Clipons. The VIBRATION is ridiculous. My LM had no such issue though I often read complaints. I presently have foam grip covers. Hate them. Fine at speed but fancy maneuvering on campground grassy conditions. I feel I don't "have a hold" of the fat pig. (Let's face it..these things are no ballerina under 20mph. Add wet grass and tree roots...ugh! ) so any reduction in vibration due to "break in- smooth out " will be noted and reported. I got a 800mi weekend coming up so we'll see. ( *Sportys Iron Duke Saloon* Minerva NY.. A spatering of Guzzis, Beemers and good folks camping out if anyone is in range an interested. Spectacular lonely, well surfaced, un-patrolled 😈 roads) 

 

Do your std clip-ons have the std bar weight assemblies installed? The vibes aren't normally particularly obnoxious on a 2000 V11 Sport with the swan neck clip-ons. The later clip-ons and weights are a little better but you can't use them.

Phil 

[OuijiVeck]

1 minute ago, Lucky Phil said:

Do your std clip-ons have the std bar weight assemblies installed? The vibes aren't normally particularly obnoxious on a 2000 V11 Sport with the swan neck clip-ons. The later clip-ons and weights are a little better but you can't use them.

Phil 

Ya..they have the weights....I'll pull them and fill the empty tubes up with sinkers.. maybe.

[Lucky Phil]

1 minute ago, OuijiVeck said:

Ya..they have the weights....I'll pull them and fill the empty tubes up with sinkers.. maybe.

Have you checked the engine mount and front frame mount bolt torques? 

Phil

[OuijiVeck]

31 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Have you checked the engine mount and front frame mount bolt torques? 

Phil

Ding ding ding !!! First thing in the AM ..THANKS Phil......Duh!..In my defense I only took one 40mi ride with the clipons. Still..should thought motor mounts before "sinkers" 😃🤣 the club bars on risers I took off were full of BBs.

[Lucky Phil]

47 minutes ago, OuijiVeck said:

Ding ding ding !!! First thing in the AM ..THANKS Phil......Duh!..In my defense I only took one 40mi ride with the clipons. Still..should thought motor mounts before "sinkers" 😃🤣 the club bars on risers I took off were full of BBs.

Without knowing the history of your bike also check the front engine mount lugs on the engine cover. Even a lowside on a v11 Sport can break one of them so look for a cracked front case mount.

Failing all that it's the lead weights I guess. BTW here in Aus the bolt on plastic weight used on garage roller doors is full of nice lead shot like shotgun pellets. Come to think of it you could always go to the local ammunition supplier and use lead shot I guess. 

[docc]

I have used the lead shot method of damping vibration. Because of the constant abrasion and bi-metal corrosion, I would pack those pellets in a grease bath next time . . .

[OuijiVeck]

1 minute ago, docc said:

I have used the lead shot method of damping vibration. Because of the constant abrasion and bi-metal corrosion, I would pack those pellets in a grease bath next time . . .

Good thinkin,'

[OuijiVeck]

9 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Without knowing the history of your bike also check the front engine mount lugs on the engine cover. Even a lowside on a v11 Sport can break one of them so look for a cracked front case mount.

Failing all that it's the lead weights I guess. BTW here in Aus the bolt on plastic weight used on garage roller doors is full of nice lead shot like shotgun pellets. Come to think of it you could always go to the local ammunition supplier and use lead shot I guess. 

Again with insightful thoughts... thanks again... I'm leaning towards "something up with motor mounts" Investigations begin in AM. Then off to the ammo store. 🤣