Suspension Survey

[LaGrasta]

As a sort of starting point for comparison, please reply with your settings, and maybe a short NOTE to accompany.

Setting Sag

When counting clicks, it’s always counter clockwise, from all the way screwed in.

[LaGrasta]

2003 Moto Guzzi V11, Marzocchi

rider weight: 170 lbs

forks: C6 / R13

shock: 44mm drop was as low as I could gain, even when the shock spring was fully backed off. This is equal to 37%, acceptable. 

– 128mm stock Fork travel – 30-35% is ideal (About 30 Percent Give Or Take: The first thing you need to know is how much shock suspension travel your bike has (you can often get suspension travel specs from the manufacturer’s website). Then you need to calculate what 30 percent of that is. For example an Africa Twin has 8.7 inches of shock travel and 2.6 inches is 30 percent of that. Therefore, on an Africa Twin, you want the rear of the bike to drop about 2.6 inches from the fully-extended position with you, geared up, with luggage, if that’s how you typically ride.)

 

Note: My forks rise above the triple tree by 15mm, quicker steering.

[LaGrasta]

I wish others had weighed in on this thread.

I've now ridden enough miles that I believe I'll need to upgrade to find an acceptable "bounce". On the road, these dialed in OEM forks seems find, but when hitting any pothole, speedbump, etc at slow speed or fast, they hit far too hard. I suspect I'm not adjusting these correct, but I really tried and this is the best I've found.

I've read some reviews from GuzziTech Store and found others stating stock forks reacting the same as mine. Maybe I need to spend some money and find a set of springs. Please recommend any cost effective choices.

Lastly, I'll mention the wallowing around corners. If I'm riding aggressive through a turn, it does not feel stable. I suspected SAG, but after my settings, I seem to have run out of adjustment. I find this hard to believe since I'm only 165 pounds, a bit more with gear. Maybe the stock rear spring is built for a lighter guy. Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Pressureangle]

What Paul Thede said in 1985 is not relevant, and I only know one guy who ran his stuff that loose on the racetrack; he was very fast, but we swapped bikes once and I could not ride it *at all*. Back then frames were spaghetti and tight suspension flexed frames causing head shakes, wobbles, etc.
I set my sag front and rear at about 1/2-3/4" depending on where I am. For general riding I go a little loose, for curvy riding a little tight. Damping adjustments depend on speed and road surface. Simply put, wallowing is due to not enough spring and trying to tighten it up with damping only makes it harsher and worse due to the inputs. Tighten up your sag to 1/2" without sitting on the bike, and set the damping somewhere in the middle and try that. 

[GuzziMoto]

I will point out that adding preload does not make a spring stiffer. If the spring is too soft adding preload will raise the ride height but the spring is still too soft.

Start with the basics. Set preload to where you need it to get the desired ride height. Then see what sag with you off the bike is, and that will tell you if your spring is too soft, too firm, or right.

I don't run as much sag as most do, I am closer to Pressureangle with what I run for sag. I don't need a lot of droop available in a street bike. A dirt bike, sure. But not a street bike, especially a sport bike. But setting sag doesn't change spring rate. If the spring is too soft, add preload and it is still too soft.

It is easy enough to replace the rear shock with a higher quality unit, especially if you have the Sachs. Upgrading the front forks is easy if you have the newer forks, they offer cartridges' that drop in and improve the performance of the stock forks. If you have the earlier front forks you need to fix the internals of the forks to even have proper dampening. Without that, the adjusters are meaningless.

Add either an o-ring on the fork tube or add a small zip tie to the fork tube so you can see if your harshness on large bumps is the forks bottoming or the fork valving not letting the fork absorb the bump.

[guzzler]

G'day mate

I had some work done on my suspension late last year and have been fiddling / adjusting and basically learning this dark art ever since ha ha.

I did post my findings at the time and have been meaning to add to the post for anyone else in the same boat as myself but since seeing your post I'll add my findings here.

Firstly as per GuzziMoto if you have an early red frame you NEED to BLOCK those holes in the compression side so the oil doesn't blow through them! If you don't you'll have NO compression damping whatsoever until the last inch and then BANG almost hydraulic lock! This is fun cranked over in a bend.....NOT.

Then get springs for your weight and install....I'm 90kg's and bike is 220kg's so all up about 700lb's in the old money which means I have .95kg linear springs.

Once you've done this only then can you start adjusting / fiddling and testing to see what works for you.

I also found some good info on settings....

Forks, if you have the correct springs for you and bike you should use as little compression damping as you need to avoid bottoming out and let the springs do the work!  I also found a ratio of compression to Rebound of 1 to 3. So if Comp set to 3 Rebound should be 9. I work mine thus... wind all the way out ( loose ) then clicks back in.So my forks are set at Comp 3 clicks in from full loose ( out ) and Rebound at 9 x clicks in from full loose (out ).Incidentally I also found out that most forks are set up to work best with Rebound set up at about halfway. Given our forks have 18 Rebound settings 9 is halfway!    

As for shocks, I have a Hyperpro 460 Emulsion shock which has preload and Rebound adjustment only.However adjusting the Rebound also adjusts the compression in a set ratio.From what I gather the comp/reb ratio for shocks is 1 to 2. Anyways as per the notion of forks working best with Rebound in the middle of it's adjustment the shock came set up for me with + 25 of 50 possible settings ( half way again ). 

So where am I at the moment....

Forks up through the triples by 8mm ..Comp +3 Reb +9 

Hyperpro steering damper at +4 

Hyperpro 460 shock with Rebound at + 28 which is good. ( I did try + 30 but bit harsh on our goat tracks might try 29 though)

I gotta say though even with the limited riding ( and in some pretty ordinary conditions too ie wind / rain ) I'm bloody happy with it like this and feel like I'm really really close.

Ha ha I'm on the bike again tomorrow and will hammer her through the fun bit on way home again... hopefully less wind and no traffic so I can test her a bit more.

Cheers Guzzler

Ps do the mods and get correct springs before trying to adjust as only wasting your time otherwise mate.

Pps as for sag I don't know much about that but am lucky that it was set up pretty well that way for me at least earlier on.

Hope this helps but bear in mind I am NOT a suspension expert and this is only what I've been able to glean so far!

These bikes do handle well once you get it right so do persist.

 

 

[docc]

+1 on starting with the correct springs.

Also, apparently the damping adjustment is not linear. As in: half the clicks is not half the damping change.  There is less change between clicks to start (from loose) and more between clicks at the high end such that half the damping change is found at about 3/4 of the clicks turned in.

My reference for that is Peter Verdone. His site is also where I learned that choosing fork oil by "weight" is futile. He publishes a chart of common fork oils measured in centiStokes.

http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm

[GuzziMoto]

Not all needle valves flow the same, but generally any needle valve will see the biggest changes in flow when it is near closed  and as it is further open changes in the valve opening have less and less effect on flow. As the needle gets further from the seat, a given change in distance from the seat has less impact on flow. The same amount of change when the needle is close to the seat has a larger percent impact on flow. But to be honest, that isn't that important. It's main relevance is that if you need to adjust your adjusters to near the end of the range of adjustment you may need to fundamentally change the valving instead to get the adjuster back into the meat of its range.

Also, while I am fine with guzzler basing his counts on how far from fully open, general consensus on needle valves is you start from fully closed and count from there. That is because fully open can be different, it is not a set and specific point. But fully closed is a set and repeatable point to start from. A fully closed needle valve is the same point every time, even between different bikes.

[LaGrasta]

Sheesh, a dark art indeed.

[LaGrasta]

@guzzler Simply put, where mine is C5 & R12, yours is C3 & R9.

[guzzler]

G'day folks

Thanks for that input Doc and Guzzimoto.

I may just reset the compression damping by going to fully closed and then open by 13 clicks ...

This should realistically put me where I'm at now with C3 but just guaranteeing that it is a genuine + 3 from full open and see how that goes?

Maybe I'll also try Rebound fully closed then open by 6 clicks to give + 12 from full open..?This would theoretically be about 3/4 in...

Well I never got to ride my fun way home tonight so couldn't fully test my changes a bit more....Bugger!

Still where I'm at now is WAY better than it was before I had the work done. 

Looking forward to some free time to ride and decent weather to test these changes!

Cheers Guzzler

 

[Chuck]

This is FWIW, of course. I was fortunate enough to have a playground in SoCal, so after the Mighty Scura taught me to properly ride (I was a clueless midwesterner) I spent many happy hours playing with suspension settings in the canyons. After setting sag for my weight, here is what I came up with.

From Scura records:

Suspension settings:

set front shock compression +3 from full soft, rebound+6 from full soft. Rear suspension Rebound 24 clicks from full soft, compression 12 clicks from full soft.

Fork spring: 04745-95/L357

 

 

[LaGrasta]

Hopped on my V11 this morning to head to work and I find the fuel line leaking, probably just needs the clamp tightened as they're newer. 

With the helmet still on, I park the V11 and hop on the V7. It has an AK fork upgrade and Wilbers shocks. Sheesh, NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE. I really need to work on the V11, I'm missing out on what could be… 

[guzzler]

G'day folk's

Thanks Chuck...

Sounds like you had the mighty Scura set up pretty similar to my greenie!

As mentioned I'm going to wind mine back full in and then work back out to C 3 and R 9 instead of full out and work back in and test.

I'll test this to see if any difference and may try R @ 12.

Will report again when I can.

Cheers Guzzler

Ps LG it is worth persisting mate, as these things are a lot of fun in the twisty bits....

[guzzler]

Well, I've just re-adjusted my forks...

Dialed both Comp and Reb all the way back into full closed and counted back...

So now Comp is a true + 3 from full open and Reb is a true +9 from full open.

All I need now is for Moses to part the sea of responsibilities for a wee bit so I can go play in the hills......

Cheers 

Ps maybe he could put in a good word to the weather god (s) as well ?