Driveshaft/Gearbox

[Guzzijens]

I inspect the flywheel/clutch assembly of my Rosso Mandello last winter, no sign of cracks at all. Maybe the Rosso Mandello isnt affected with this issue? And how many of the Scura`s is affected? I also installed the new type of clutch plate, much smooter engaging, but some issues with the clutch dragging, now sorted out

Jens

 

[Kevin_T]

The push rod for the clutch on a 6-speed trans is 8 mm its 6 mm for a 5-speed. So, you Will need the thrust cup from a 6-speed trans (they fit right in). Also, you'll need the right input hub. The length of the splines on the ram clutch are .6900 inches the normal 6 speed is .9040 and for the 5 speed the splines are .9675. The 5-speed hub sits a little proud but looking at the wear pattern there is more than enough room for the plates to work freely. 

You asked the question should I reuse the old flywheel. Did you check for cracks? The pictures looked awfully good. If you're going to revisit your clutch in about 15,000 miles, I might put it back in. If its 40,000 before you return NO WAY, would I reuse it. The cush drive is all the way downstream. The clutch on these bikes takes a quite the beating. Aluminum just isn't up to the task this kind of dynamic loading. 

  If you went with the 5-speed Ram clutch the push rod will have to be reworked. If you go with centauro clutch you're going to need more force to pull in the clutch, and you'll give up a little of the engine snappiness. The trade off it might feel a little smoother.

[Kevin_T]

I wrote that about 5 hours earlier, but when I tried to submit the website kicked me out and I thought I lost the post.

[cash1000]

16 hours ago, Guzzijens said:

I inspect the flywheel/clutch assembly of my Rosso Mandello last winter, no sign of cracks at all. Maybe the Rosso Mandello isnt affected with this issue? And how many of the Scura`s is affected? I also installed the new type of clutch plate, much smooter engaging, but some issues with the clutch dragging, now sorted out

Jens

 

Great to hear another RM owner's experiences. May I ask why did you install the new clutch plate?

[cash1000]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:03 AM, cash1000 said:

The shattered bearing in gearbox told us problem was defintley there.

With gearbox out it made sense to check the clutch and flywheel for any wear

I've got flywheel away being crack tested (thanks MartyNZ)

[Guzzijens]

17 hours ago, cash1000 said:

Great to hear another RM owner's experiences. May I ask why did you install the new clutch plate?

It was a attemt to reduce the clutch noise (not a great success) and to improve the behavior of the clutch action when downshifting. This is much better, the "tripod?" clutchplate flex maybe a little compared to the original. 

[Baldini]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:42 AM, cash1000 said:

I've got flywheel away being crack tested (thanks MartyNZ)

It may not be re-assurance but I've come to think RM clutch assembly components differ from Scura. It may just be a question of production numbers but can anyone here recall hearing of an RM flywheel failing in a similar way to those in Scuras?

For my own peace of mind, I'd be really interested to know why your output shaft bearing failed, & to that end it would be useful to know how driveshaft was aligned. You may have missed my earlier post re my exploding Scura (the driveshaft was badly misaligned, & the paint marks totally wrong from new).

Thanks for any info on the driveshaft. 

Cheers, KB

Here's pic from earlier post:

 

[pete roper]

Keith, I too have not heard of a RM or Coppa Italia flywheel shitting the bed. While this is a good thing I don't know if it is really relevant. What do the part #'s say?

I still think all the factory single platers are the work of the devil! I'd rather stick with the lightest version of the twin plater, but that's me.....

[cash1000]

9 hours ago, Baldini said:

It may not be re-assurance but I've come to think RM clutch assembly components differ from Scura. It may just be a question of production numbers but can anyone here recall hearing of an RM flywheel failing in a similar way to those in Scuras?

For my own peace of mind, I'd be really interested to know why your output shaft bearing failed, & to that end it would be useful to know how driveshaft was aligned. You may have missed my earlier post re my exploding Scura (the driveshaft was badly misaligned, & the paint marks totally wrong from new).

Thanks for any info on the driveshaft. 

Cheers, KB

Here's pic from earlier post:

 

I've got no paint marks on my driveshaft so when I had refitted it after I had swing arm out last year I aligned it as per diagram in workshop manual. I would post a picture but I'm at work and manual is at home

[MartyNZ]

15 hours ago, pete roper said:

Keith, I too have not heard of a RM or Coppa Italia flywheel shitting the bed.

I took Cash1000's RM flywheel to the NDT dept at work. I showed them pictures of cracked and broken flywheels, so they knew what to look for. The next day they said "No cracks. Surprisingly it's perfect".

Edit: this is an aluminum alloy flywheel.

@cash1000

[docc]

12 hours ago, pete roper said:

Keith, I too have not heard of a RM or Coppa Italia flywheel shitting the bed. While this is a good thing I don't know if it is really relevant. What do the part #'s say?

I still think all the factory single platers are the work of the devil! I'd rather stick with the lightest version of the twin plater, but that's me.....

Can we get clarification that Coppa Italia have steel flywheels, with common twin plate clutches, and it is the 2001 Rosso Mandello and 2002 Scura and Tenni that have the aluminum flywheels mated to a single plate clutch?

[audiomick]

Hi docc.

I did some looking at parts lists, and found (perhaps) what you are asking for.

The source for the parts lists is here:

https://guzzitek.org/gb/accueil_gb.htm

There is a quite amazing collection of workshop manuals and parts catalogues there.

Looking at this one:

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11Sport-RossoMandello_1999-2001_062011_PL(GB).pdf

There is a reference on page 67 of the document to the "Mandello red clutch" that is, going by the drawings, a single plate clutch.

In this one:

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11LM_Naked_2001-2002_052013_PL(GB).pdf

the drawing on page 79 shows the twin plate clutch with an additional reference to a single plate clutch labelled "V11 Scura / V11 LM Tenni"

The Coppa Italia was, as far as I can tell, a tarted up Cafe Sport. This parts list for the 2003 - 2005 Cafe Sport / Ballabio

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11Cafe_Ballabio_2003-2005_062013_PL(GB).pdf

has a picture on the first page of, as far as I have been able to tell, a Coppa Italia.

Page 70 shows a twin plate clutch. As far as I can tell, there is no reference to a single plate clutch in there.

 

Hope that helps.

I would encourage others to not take the information as undisputed fact, but rather to use it as a starting point for further research to either confirm or refute its veracity.

[docc]

7 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Hi docc.

I did some looking at parts lists, and found (perhaps) what you are asking for.

The source for the parts lists is here:

https://guzzitek.org/gb/accueil_gb.htm

There is a quite amazing collection of workshop manuals and parts catalogues there.

Looking at this one:

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11Sport-RossoMandello_1999-2001_062011_PL(GB).pdf

There is a reference on page 67 of the document to the "Mandello red clutch" that is, going by the drawings, a single plate clutch.

In this one:

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11LM_Naked_2001-2002_052013_PL(GB).pdf

the drawing on page 79 shows the twin plate clutch with an additional reference to a single plate clutch labelled "V11 Scura / V11 LM Tenni"

The Coppa Italia was, as far as I can tell, a tarted up Cafe Sport. This parts list for the 2003 - 2005 Cafe Sport / Ballabio

https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/gb/1100/V11Cafe_Ballabio_2003-2005_062013_PL(GB).pdf

has a picture on the first page of, as far as I have been able to tell, a Coppa Italia.

Page 70 shows a twin plate clutch. As far as I can tell, there is no reference to a single plate clutch in there.

 

Hope that helps.

I would encourage others to not take the information as undisputed fact, but rather to use it as a starting point for further research to either confirm or refute its veracity.

That all appears correct to me.  Perhaps @pete roper just made a posting slip about the Coppa Italia and meant to say "Tenni" . . .

Just going for clarification for those investigating the aluminum flywheel "single plate clutch" concerns by model.

Also, very glad to see @cash1000's flywheel checked out. Thanks, @MartyNZ !

[docc]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:41 PM, cash1000 said:

Vince had no problem dismantling the gearbox

Unfortunalty he found a bearing had failed

Concern is has debris from bearing damaged other bearings

Need to decide whether I get Vince to rebuild gearbox or find a 2nd hand box

 

 

 

Yes, @cash1000, please clarify which is that failed bearing ?

[cash1000]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:05 PM, docc said:

 

Yes, @cash1000, please clarify which is that failed bearing ?

I'm not sure. I will find out