Starter button.

[audiomick]

On the newly acquired V11 Le Mans, the starter button doesn't always work immediately. For instance this evening after work I had to hit it about 6 times before the starter kicked in.

The previous owner had told me about the problem before I bought it, so I'm not surprised. Mostly it works; when it is being finicky it is mostly only once or twice. Tonight was the worst I've seen, but then again I haven't ridden it much yet.

I haven't looked at anything at all yet.

I'm assuming the battery is all right for now, firstly because the previous owner fixed a number of things during the 6 months or so that he had the bike, and I can't imagine he left a dodgy battery in it. Secondly, when the starter does kick in, or when it starts first go, there is no sign of battery weakness. The starter turns as I would expect it to, and the bike starts pretty much straight away. What might be relevant, or might not, it's only about 5° C here at the moment. Maybe the low temperature had something to do with it being particulary contrary tonight. That would, however, indicate a weak battery I think, and as I said, I think the battery is ok.

When it is playing up, the dash lights dim a bit, so I don't think the starter button is just not switching.

What occurs to me to look at:

Check things like the connection from the minus on the battery to the frame, and "follow the volts" from battery plus to the starter with the multi-meter to see if any are getting lost on the way. And check the voltage at the battery with the motor off and with the motor running, of course. Also a check under load, i.e. lights on and activate the starter to see what happens to the battery voltage.

If that all looks good (and at the moment, I suspect I'll find something in there somewhere...), I reckon I'll have to consider having a look inside the starter motor.

So now the questions:

Are there any known issues with the starter button, the starter itself, or anything related, that might cause such a problem?

Does anyone have suggestions about what else I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance,

Mick

[docc]

14 minutes ago, audiomick said:

On the newly acquired V11 Le Mans, the starter button doesn't always work immediately. For instance this evening after work I had to hit it about 6 times before the starter kicked in.

Are there any known issues with the starter button, the starter itself, or anything related, that might cause such a problem?

Does anyone have suggestions about what else I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance,

Mick

Good news! "Yes" and "yes" to your questions . . .

 

[audiomick]

Thanks for that, docc. I'll look at those.

[Tinus89]

If the lights dim and you do hear a "click", then there could also be a loose magnet in the starter motor. I had that, and all symtoms showed a poor battery (voltage went down significantly when I pushed the button, as low as 6v).

After replacing the battery, the problem persisted. I fixed it by changing out the starter motor & disassembled the old one, found a loose magnet inside.

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, Tinus89 said:

... a loose magnet in the starter motor...

So that would be a Valeo starter, right?

I've read about the problem they had with the magnets for a while. I gather the problem was solved in newer models, but I don't know for sure from when on.

I assume mine (V11 Le Mans 2002/2003 model) would have a Valeo starter. As far as I know, Guzzi started using them somewhere around that time, and they were in all the models. Can someone confirm that for me?

Edit: I could, of course, go down and see if I can see a brand on the starter, but the bike is under a cover outside, and it is raining...

[Pressureangle]

I had intermittent starter issues ever since I bought mine, which increased over time to the point that it mimicked a bad battery- dimming lights, slow cranking, hard starting in general. Two years ago at the SSR it wouldn't crank at all, but later at home it started again. The long story short is that the pinion bearing in the starter was seizing. Here's the thread.
 

 

[audiomick]

Thanks, I'll look at that.

 

I got a PM earlier today suggesting I look at this topic:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/23441-solved-had-to-get-a-jump-start-from-roadside-assistance-starter-motor-not-cranking-after-a-chilly-night-intermitent-issue/

The symptoms described there match mine exactly, so I will be looking in that direction for sure.

The gist of it is, the starter solenoid gets it's power through the ignition switch, and it may be that the switch is not letting enough amps through. Adding a relay which provides power directly from the battery to the solenoid and is triggered by the ignition switch will be more reliable and more robust. And should (or could...) solve the problem immediately and permanently.

 

It is going to be a while, maybe a few weeks, before I get around to looking into this problem. Any further tips or information would be more than welcome.

 

Thanks for the contributions so far.

[Tomchri]

Adding a relay is the way to go. You could try with a deasent cable from battery directly to the solenoid, to see if the starter engages,, every time.  Of course bike in neutral and all that. Going thru all electric connections is a big bonus. It’s called learning to know your bike, very rewarding.

 Cheers Tom.

[LowRyter]

I periodically clean the the switch with contact cleaner and cycle it a few times.  Sometimes play with the relays also clean those contacts and fuse as well.

[audiomick]

Yeah, one easily forgets that electrical contacts are something that need servicing.

For instance, power cables and powerboards (plugs into the wall and has multiple outlets...) that are used in the "event branch", i.e. PA systems, lighting, video etc., and in fact anything that has a power cable on it, is supposed to get a yearly inspection here in Germany.

When was the last time anyone here opened the plugs on that old power extension cable in the workshop to see if the screws were all still tight?

For the electricals on a motorbike, it is just as relevant.

[LaGrasta]

Newly acquired vehicles always have me and a can of slippery-squirt spray all hinges, keyholes, buttons, etc. Give it a try.

[Speedfrog]

All described symptoms point towards yet another victim of ISIS...

No, I’m not talking about a bunch of bearded dudes with twisted views of the world but the somewhat less threatening Infamous Startus Interruptus Syndrome that has plagued modern Guzzi owners since about the time the World Trade Center came down.

Plug-in “startus interruptus” in the search box and you will be rewarded with days of reading on the subject, perfect for these dreadful cold and rainy days away from the open road...

[audiomick]

31 minutes ago, Speedfrog said:

Plug-in “startus interruptus” in the search box

I'll do that (probably...), but I'm already familiar with the term and the concept from German forums.

 

@LaGrasta : the "new bike" inspection hasn't happened yet, but it will come. The workshop that I share with a couple of blokes is no warmer than outside, so I'm not in a hurry to spend several hours in there checking over the bike until it gets a little less cold outside.

[LaGrasta]

from my notes:

 

MPH Cycles Starter Interruptus mod

Parts at http://www.cycleterminal.com/ (except the 14 AWG blue, green and white wires). The MPH Cycles part comes with a 10amp fuse in the fuse link. 

The heat shrink tubing and the black protective tubing could be replaced by ordinary electrical tape. You need a crimping tool for the brass terminals, but a garden variety tool from the hardware store will do fine. The connectors from Cycle Terminal come with male and female spade terminals. The "eye" terminal on the fuse link has to be purchased separately. 

[audiomick]

Thanks for that.