Guest ratchethack Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 YIKES! Yesterday I went to fire up my trusty 2000 V11 Sport, turned the key, and NOTHING - no dash lights, no fuel pump whir, NADA. It did this previously only twice in the past week, but at these times, with a few repeat cycles of the key, she came right back and fired up. Not so now. Here's what I've tried so far: re-seated all relays (I've got all replacement V23074's) and replaced the START relay with a GEI. Checked & re-seated all fuses - all OK. Cycled the kill switch repeatedly. Battery puts out 12.52v and works my Fiamm Freeway Blasters - no prob. All electrical connections, including ground strap "appear" to be clean and solid (but haven't actually re-done each one yet). I'll check the regulator path to ground next. Since now there are no dash lights or fuel pump voltage, I assume that checking side-stand, clutch and neutral switches would be pointless. If anyone can offer a troubleshooting list for the usual suspect problems beyond what I've done, I'd appreciate it. Seems like I might be missing something big and simple?? BTW - I've got a PC III - ck'd all connections there - also OK. Thanks in advance! Rachethack
jrt Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 Hi Ratchet, If you're not getting juice to anything, then the problem is pretty high up. I would initially suspect the ignition switch. Trace the wiring to the switch, then check to see if you are getting 12V to anything past the switch. I would not suspect the kill switch or the sidestand switch. J
Guest davidb Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 It sounds like you know what you are doing so I don't want to insult you by asking/ suggesting certain things. Assuming you cleaned the battery terminals, my schematic shows that you must have power on/from fuse f4 first. the key switch has a four wire pin connector, numbers 1 and 4 should be hot all the time. of course they are not numbered in order, it shows 1342 and does not specify left to right so when checking voltage, I would be careful where you go to ground with your multimeter.I havent had enough experiance with the guzzi yet to know its wiring/ecu quirks but the beemer has plenty to keep you thinking.
callison Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 First off and easiest, remove the PCIII from the circuit. The PCIII is not likely to be the suspect, but it could be, and removing it makes the trouble shooting process slightly easier. The next spot to check is to find the single inline connector (#57 on the 1999 V11 Sport schematic on my web page) and take it apart and put it back together several times to wipe the contact surfaces. After these easy spots, it's time to start trouble shooting the run/stop switches and the ignition switch. How good are you with electical systems and meters - or at least testing voltages with a light bulb?
Guest ratchethack Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 Many thanks, Guys. Please don't make assumptions that I know what I'm doing! Case in point - though the fuses "looked" OK, I fairly quickly discovered no continuity across #4 - the KEY SWITCH fuse. Carl, thanks for pointing me toward your schematic. I didn't know if it would be the same for my 2000 Sport, but it's obviously pretty close, if not exactly right. I printed it out and can just read the numbers on the printout (not too small). A tremendous resource! Next, I discovered I have all the spare fuse sizes I need except 10A, so have to go out & find one now on Memorial Day... Next up - what made it blow? Any suggestions (usual suspects) on where to look for this?? Also - Where's #57 physically located? I want to ck this & reseat it as you suggested while I've got the tank off. You Guys are the bees' knees! With any luck I'll be able to ID the source of the errant ground (or if not maybe it won't come back??) and I'll back on the road in a couple hours! Ratchethack
Guest ratchethack Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 FOLLOW-UP - I put about 40 miles on it with the new #4 fuse - all's A-OK. Thanks to jrt, davidb, and carl for your input, I learned a bit more today & (hopefully) won't be as much of a next time comes for a visit. Still have no idea what made the fuse blow, may never know now... If anyone who reads this knows where connector #57 is physically located on the bike, pls. advise, I'd like to do a pre-emptory clean up, cycle & put dielectric grease on it. Thanks again Guys & also in advance on loc. of #57. Ratchethack
badmotogoozer Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 Don't forget to throw a pack of 10 fuses in your tail space. Fuses blow for a reason, and if you don't know why it went, you could blow a few more getting home if it becomes a regular problem without warning. Tow bill vs 10cnt fuse. Rj
Guest ratchethack Posted May 31, 2004 Posted May 31, 2004 Roger that, BMG. Now I've got 5 ea. 10A's in my on-board toolkit.
Guest Bruce Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 Interesting about the fuse and the key symptoms. Are these two things on the same circuit? I'd take a look at whats on the circuit that blew and then look around for a bad connection. The majority of these types of problems are bad connection.
Guest davidb Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 Bruce, fuse# 4 is for the key circuit. # 57 connector is for the ecu relay.power is supplied through fuse #1 for the ecu relay, which was not his problem.If there was a problem with 57, the bike would still have lights and fuel pump, but no start or run.Where it is (57) located at...I don't know yet, but I would start tracing it back from the ecu relay terminal rather than the switch on the right bar.
Guest ratchethack Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 Well, it appears that is back, dammit. Just blew the 10A #4 fuse again. It happened as soon as I turned the key. This after 40 good mi on the new fuse with a stop for lunch halfway. From your comment, davidb, I'm a little nervous about poking around with my DMM now. I don't want to fry the ECU. If I'm just testing for continuity and voltage, am I in danger of this ?? Do I need to unplug the ECU to test for shorts? Your comments on pin #s 1 and 4 at the ign. switch being always live make sense according to Carl's schematic. If I'm reading it right there's nothing but wire between fuse #4 and the ign. switch. In this case, my take is that I'm either looking for a dead short to ground on the fuse side of the switch, or I'm looking for a bad headlight relay, a dead short to ground, or interestingly enough, the signal flasher or something in the alternator on the other side of the ign. switch. From here, if I'm reading the schematic correctly at this piont, (probability now drops down to <10%) the potential for prob's branches in directions too numerous to list ... Actually I'm just sort of lost and shooting around in all directions now. Any electro-whizzes out there care to chime in (please!) Though I'm tempted to shove a 15A fuse in, I WON'T DO THIS, will be patient and try to properly root out the cause, but could use some more help! Pls answer my question about danger of frying the ECU by testing for continuity & voltage with my DMM. Thanks Again in advance, Ratchethack
Guest davidb Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 The point I was trying to make is not to use the ecu as a grounding point. I will try to look at the schematic and get back tonight after work
jrt Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 Don't put a 15A fuse in. Bad, bad, bad idea. From your description, it sounds like an intermittant short rather than a dead short. Sorry, that's an even worse to find. There is no magic bullet to tracing down a fault. It just takes patience and organization. The first step is to take the tank and seat and headlight off, and look for the obvious- a dangling wire or wires that may have overheated (if you can tell). Then if you don't see anything suspicious, check the circuit that is causing the fault. If your ignition fuse is burning out, then you should start looking in that circuit. Print out a copy of Carl's wiring diagram and follow that. A question for anyone who knows (I don't have a diagram in front of me)- from memory, the starter circuit contains the starter, headlight, and ECU relays. Could one of those have internally shorted out? Per grounding your DVM- just use the battery terminal and you'll be fine. The engine fins work pretty well too, but you need a fairly strong alligator clip. Good luck! Think of it as a puzzle rather than a chore. You wouldn't believe how much I learned about wiring from a POS Honda that I once owned. cheers, Jason
callison Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 The ECU doesn't have to be in circuit to get the starter to turn over, so go ahead and disconnect it during the preliminary phases of trouble shooting just to be safe.
Guest ratchethack Posted June 1, 2004 Posted June 1, 2004 Thanks for the continued input, Jason. I can use all the intelligence I can get at this point. Per your comments: "From your description, it sounds like an intermittant short rather than a dead short." Agreed, unfortunately. "Print out a copy of Carl's wiring diagram and follow that." Done. Without this I'd be a long ways up a very bad-smelling creek. Thanks again, Carl! "Think of it as a puzzle rather than a chore." It's all in the attitude, isn't it? My nervousness comes from the fact that, though I've had many bikes, I haven't done any substantial electrical troubleshooting on a moto since the days of my A65 BSA. Lucas (aka The Prince of Darkness) taught me much by repeat necessity, but back then things were an order of magnitude simpler, and of course there were no ECU's to worry about. The Guzzi is my first EFI bike. I've got a good part of today to work on it, will advise on progress. But any further advice or experience (especially if anyone has had #4 fuse blow, I'd like to know what the cause was) is more'n welcome! davidb, thanks for your willingness to take another look at the schematic. I'll be looking for your post later today. Thanks to all youse Guys for the encouragement! Regards, Ratchethack
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