GEI relay retrofit

[Steve G.]

Great info on the relay situation David. I didn't realize how over burdened the relays were on the early bikes. I have gotten rid of all the Seimens relays, my local dealer gave me what they are getting, a relay out of Portugal brand name "Tyco", part # A1001-A403. It shows no amp capacities on any of the pins, but does show a resistor.

The fellow who is bringing these in is a buddy of yours? I'm guessing it is not a business, as the site doesn't mention whether you can use a credit card. It is quite unique today for someone to take a check only.

I've been wondering if there is a loose connection with the relay block [holder] itself. I was going to take everything apart tomorrow to see what I can see. Another thing I've been thinking, is I've wondered if there is some kind of device or switch which temorarily cuts power to the headlight when the starter button is depressed, and it could be causing this problem, and where on the bike is it located?

The intermintent cut out of the lights/tach seem to have no relation to engine speed, vibration, road bumps, or turning the bike on/off. It will and has been dropping the headlight off while I've been going down the road at speed at night, in the dark!

I pretty well must rectify this situation before I go on the tours I have planned for this summer. I'm hoping these GEI relays are the answer.

Ciao, Steve G.

[al_roethlisberger]

Dan Prunuske is our "Guzzi Source" for appropriate relays

 

He used to promote, and was the primary source for, the Bosch relays for the Guzzi community.... but now he has switched to the GEI units after pioneering their use, as they are rated for higher amperage.

 

Although not every socket on the V11 requires a 5 pin relay, just use all 5 pin units to avoid any confusion, and for interchangeability. It won't matter functionally.

 

 

http://www.dotnet.com/~pyrodan/relay.htm

 

http://www.dotnet.com/~pyrodan/

 

al

[dlaing]

As much as they are overburdened, most people have no problems with the Bosch.

I have never met Dan, but have corresponded with him by email regarding these issues.

After I brought the problem to Dan's attention, Dan searched hard to find a relay with Highest Amp capabilities in the size we need.

From what I understand Dan has a business and writes these sales into it, at a pretty minimal profit as you can tell by his price with lifetime warranty.

He probably makes about $0.33 per hour selling these.

Is he a saint? I'll let you be the judge!

The starter relay is the device that cuts the power to the headlight, etc., when starting.

When not starting all of the current that goes to the headlights, etc., goes through the underated 87a terminal.

If you never use the high beam headlight flasher or horn, the Tyco and Bosch would probably hold up fine. If you never use them and you are failing, it could be another problem like the seat, and or vibration.

I don't use the horn often, but I do use the high beam flasher alot at night, and hold it in going around curves. This puts alot of stress on the relay's 87A terminal.

The starter relay is the furthest relay forward on 1999, 2000 and 2001 models. (I believe, but could be wrong as some relays may be out of order and guzzi changed to the improved relay set up in 2002?, so that the current goes through a 20amp relay connection.????)

[Steve G.]

You called it right David. After checking the whole thing over for bad connections, I discovered that indeed the starter relay and lighting relay work hand in hand during the starting process, and during the running time.

I should mention that I was using the last Bosch relay for the starter motor, thinking it was in good shape. Not so I see.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Guest GGuzzi]

My Rosso is currently running on those Tyco relays. It is those relays I believe that are giving me problems. No crank at all. All else turns on ,light etc. but when I turn the key i hear one click , no light dimming and starter does nothing. I was thinking of replacing the relay panel with bosch. Any suggestions as to what the best system might be out there.The box itself seems a bit loose can this cause them to short? Are they overloaded? Will movong to a larger Amp do the trick? Baffled....

[dlaing]

I'd have to check the wiring diagram, but if the headlight does not dim when the starter button is pressed, it most likely indicates that the starter relay is not getting any power to its solenoid.

So, the problem is upstream, most likely at the clutch switch that Mike Stewart suggested.

But also look under the starter relay(the forward most one) to see if any wires have been disconnected. You may not be able to look, but you can get some fingers under and try pushing the wires in.

The starter button could also be the culprit, but they are known to be very reliable(Go Domino!)

Who makes the clutch switch? Brembo, Grimeca, ??????? ?

You might try holding the starter button while repeatedly pulling the clutch in. (disclaimer: BE SURE YOU ARE IN NEUTRAL WHEN YOU DO THIS)

[Guest bshpilot]

or you can follow the clutch switch wire...unplug it and touch/connect

the wires together (on the bike side) to see if it starts then

 

i pulled mine off at the 1st sign of trouble...but had to solder the

wires on the bike side since they used male male connectors and

i couldnt plug the wires into themselves

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Wiring relays into the head light circuit takes ALL the headlight current from the factory wiring . It will ,in the long and short run prevent most of the relay ,headlight switch and IGNITION switch problems Guzzis share , I have some pics posted here :

 

http://community.webshots.com/album/108744431PhmXQC

(about half way down ,page 2)

 

There are both pictoral and schematic drawings here too.

For relays and wiring goodies :waytekwire

.... has all you need ,reasonable . Genuine Bosch relays are only $2.60 each !

Manufacturers in some places may rate THEIR relays at higher currents ,but they may not be using industry standards for longevity and temperature rise etc . We use BOSCH and OMRON relays with excellent results .

 

The key is to run a new fused feed to the headlight relays from the battery and use the factory wiring and switching to operate the relay coils only , a very small load to the factory wiring compared to the original setup . Voltage drops at the headlight in Guzzi factory wiring may run from 2 up to 4.0 volts !! With the added relays (mounted right in the headlamp shell ) The drop is less than a 1/4 of a volt .

The lighting difference is HUGE and the system strain is now NIL.

[Guest bshpilot]

man thats a nice set up (2nd or 3rd time ive seen it)....ever consider

mfg'ing them and selling them ???

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Thanks, I may make up a batch this summer ,there seems to be some demand . The NEED is real !

[dlaing]

Gary,

Does the relay harnass fit in the headlight bucket?

FWIW, I don't think this was GGuzzi's problem, because he probably would have experienced headlight and tachometer failure before the starter failure, as the starting and lighting contacts in the relay are different. But I suppose the heat generated by the high current could have caused the relay's solenoid to fail early.

In any case, your elegant solution should drastically reduce relay failures and in addition, improve the lighting!

To more completely take a load off of that relay, a dedicated horn relay would be a benefit.

The GEI relay is doing the trick for me, but I have tested it for less than 2000 miles, not bad considering how fast I was burning through the Bosch relays. I think I went through five of them in less than 3000 miles.

Dan P. was sceptical at first of GEI's amp rating compared to the Bosch.

But it does seem to last longer.

When my GEI fails, I will follow your solution and I would follow it regardless of the GEI working, but I want to test the GEI for longevity.

As you said, "The NEED is real !" No BS! I can't believe more people have not had the starter relay blow on it's lighting contact. But there have been many starting problems and interestingly tachometer failures(people may not notice their headlight failing, but they will notice the tach fail)

To test the GEI relay, I have been driving around at night with the high beam flasher held down, and at other times, blaring the horn at every opportunity, increasing the current through the GEI. So far so good!

PS bshpilot, great tip on how to check the clutch switch.

[Guest bshpilot]

Thanks, I may make up a batch this summer ,there seems to be some demand . The NEED is real !

 

put me one the top of the list then <wanna take pay pal ?>

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

Thanks, I may make up a batch this summer ,there seems to be some demand . The NEED is real !

If Gary doesn't have the time or feel like fooling with it, I will make up a intial batch of 10 to be available through MPH. Let me know Gary. I'm sitting at home on disabiltiy & have nothing better to do.

[Guest bshpilot]

I'm sitting at home on disabiltiy & have nothing better to do.

 

whoa...sorry to hear 'bout this...you gonna be ok ?

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

 

you gonna be ok ?

I'm a mental defective at least thats what Dr's say ,but as far as I'm concerned its the rest of yall thats screwed up