Hard starting Le Mans

[Guest jerroldt]

My previous carburetted Guzzi would start within a few seconds as with most every bike that I have owned (which were all in good tune). My old 94 Electra Glide will start within a few seconds even after sittting idle all Winter. My brother's new fuel injected Harley starts instantaneoulsy after the initiallizing lights go out. Why does my Le Mans require grinding the starter time after time to start it? I have tried using the fuel enrichener (and not using it in 80 degree weather). It seems to make no difference. I have to crank the starter for at least 15 seconds and then crank it again to make the bike start. Other than that the bike runs perfectly. Is it a Guzzi trait? I miss having a bike that will start easily.

[Guest ratchethack]

I had the same complaint with my '00 Sport for awhile. Though it still doesn't fire up instantaneously, now it starts within 5 sec. of the first crank: 1. Valves set to World spec 4 and 6 thou. 2. Adjust the the handlebar throttle start advance cable at the TB so that you're sure it provides maximum throttle opening. Then hold it open as far as it will go (mine doesn't stay full open without physically holding it open) and once it's open, don't let up until, and when you're holding the start button down. DON'T fiddle with the throttle setting at all once you turn the key to "on" until it starts. I think changing the degree of advance or moving the throttle grip at all confuses the ECU, then you're looking at a truly hard start or hitting the kill switch to reset the ECU. I forgot I had any problem after I did these 2 things.

 

Good luck!

[Steve G.]

To start these engines with EFI, forget the enricher[more on that later]. Just give it 1/2 throttle, crank it, and it will fire quickly.

At the risk of cheesing off some out there who find this sensitive type info, I will just whisper it, .............................................................................

 

that choke thing, it's not a choke or an enricher, it's just a fast idle thingie to prop your throttle open so it won't stall when cold.

Ciao, Steve G.

[cgalardi]

Yes, what Steve said...works for me and starts first or second attempt nearly every time.

[Mike Stewart]

Humm,

 

My 00 V11Sport starts right up even when it sits for a month.

 

But my 03 Rosso Corsa always takes at least two to three attemps to start before it stays running.

 

I have no clue why this is. Is it a 02, 03 problem?

 

Mike

[al_roethlisberger]

Well here is my theory(and method)... sorta confirmed by a few others here on the forum.

 

 

OK, well first the "method"

 

I cycle my kill switch exactly three times, with a brief pause in between each cycle to let the fuel pump cycle, pressurize, and quit. That's it. And it will almost always fire up on the first try after that

 

 

I think what is happening, especially with bikes that have sat for a day or more, is that the fuel system gets vapor/low-pressure, and for whatever reason takes a couple/three cycles of the fuel pump to run the fuel through and get to the correct pressure.

 

After my "3 cycle" method, on that last cycle, I can usually actually hear a different sound from the fuel system... almost a "whoomp and gurgle" that I can only guess is air and fuel finally making it all the way through the circuit past the pressure regulator and into the tank return. At that point, the system should be fully purged of any vapor, and pressurized correctly.

 

... and then it starts. No enricher, no 1/2 throttle... just starts

 

 

Oh, and yeah OK.... I lied Every so often it actually takes 4 cycles of the switch before I hear the tell-tale and reassuring "whoomp and gurgle" knowing it's a safe bet to spin the starter And every blue moon it might actually take two, instead of one, brief hits of the starter to get going.

 

But generally, 3 leisurely cycles of the kill switch, then one short burst from the starter button... and she'll start right up

 

 

One last note for those unaware. Do not sit on your starter button. If the engine doesn't catch after a brief hit of the starter button.... stop. Try again in a moment for sure, but don't burn up your starter or electrical system running the starter for constant revolutions. Bad idea.

 

al

[dbdicker]

I had same issues, tried the kill switch cycling thing, which didn't help and then this forum suggested the 3/8ths throttle method.

 

That one works every bloody time -- no choke (enrichener) -- no fuss

 

Dan

[andy york]

As stated before, the lever on the left handlebar is a fast idle, just to warm up the engine. The computer should read all the info from the sensors and richen the bike on its own.Thats how its pose to work.

My LeMans has 25000m on it and starts first time with about 3/8 to 1/2 throttle and less than 5 sec crank time. If its could outside then I would apply a little fast idle to warm her up.(shame it won't work on my wife-)))

 

andy

[bmc5733946]

So far two right things I hear,throttle open slightly or throttle advancer on, should start right away. Cycling kill switch will allow fuel pump to run for a few seconds until the ecu sees that there is no oil pressure at which time it will power down the relay. My experience stems from working on many bikes and has been that if you let the pump cycle a few times as Al (I think) suggested using the kill switch you may get instant starts. I usually start V11s by turning the key on and hitting the start button immediatley, if they've been sitting an extended period then I will sometimes use Al's method. The advantage of hitting the button right away is that the pump doesn't stop when cranking. Some bikes are losing their memories, from low battery voltage I assume, and therefore take a few cranks to find the cam position, check those relays again. Check the sparkplug caps, they are notorius for open circuits that will fire when there is enough voltage present but won't fire at low voltages, such as when a battery is slightly low after sitting for a week or two. I have replaced the entire wire with Magnecor wires with great results, same resistance as the stock wires with caps but much better at longterm survival. I have replaced plug caps on brand new bikes before delivery, rough idle, inability to synch throttle bodies etc. are some of the symptoms. Check those caps!!!

BMC

[Keith Foster]

My '04 Nero is hard to start in the same way. I have to try 3-4-5 timesto get it to fire. I have been careful to not crank too long. Per comments I've seen on the forum (Thanks!) this week I've been blipping the throttle at the end of a 3 or so second starting sequence. I'll try the 1/2-3/8 throttle when I leave work today.

[Guest jerroldt]

Hi:

I tried Al's method this morning after letting the bike sit idle overnight. It didn't work on my bike, in fact, it took more tries than usual to start it. I left it alone for 8 hours and then tried the 1/2 throttle method (without using the enrichener/throttle plate thingy) and was amazed. It started not almost immediately, but instantaneously. My Le Mans has never done this before! This was the first time for this test but I hope that it works well in the future and I am glad I made the post.

[Keith Foster]

I'll try the 1/2-3/8 throttle when I leave work today.

I did try, and wham, did it light off after two revolutions of the engine. I think maybe Al's method might not work with the later model stuff as the earlier models had the external fuel pumps and pressure regulators. And I have never heard my fuel pump sound like Al described it. And Al's method didn't work for me. this was the 2nd time it's ever started on the first try. The other time was "choke" on and no throttle.

 

Now to stir debate, would the instant, but high rpm starting technique create detrimemtal engine wear? My thought is this, does this technique do damage as no oil pressure has built up when the engine roars to life? I'll start messing with throttle position to ramp down the starting rpm.

 

I can run different arguments that it does no harm, film strength of modern oils, components are relativly lightly loaded at start up, short duration. It's kind of one of those "Does one crank their engine over with the kill switch on after changing the oil" kind of threads.

[al_roethlisberger]

...each bike is different I guess, but both my "old school" 2002 external fuel circuit, and the new 2003 in-tank setup that I have on the bike now makes the same "whirrr, gurgle" sounds after cycling the kill switch a couple/three times. Once it "gurgles, whoomps", after that, it's only "whir"... and should then start in my case.

 

Again.... YMMV

 

It's as if fuel needs to make it all the way through the circuit, as sometimes there is vapor in the lines after sitting a while. I have no idea.

 

 

BTW, I also noticed that it seems like some folks are using their starter for what I consider a fairly long duration to get the bike started.... even quoted as "5 seconds" in one post. Is this considered "normal"? I was always taught with autos, and any electric start engine, to just hit the starter long enough to turn the engine over once or thrice, and if it didn't catch then(maybe 2 seconds max)... back off and wait a moment so as not to overheat and place undue strain on the starter and it's electrical harness.

 

5 seconds(counting 1001, 1002, 1003.... ) seems like a loooooong time to run the starter to me

 

Maybe this is one of many differences in the starting methods we all utilize, that makes our experiences vary??

 

al

[Bruno]

Hello,

 

Yes, this is it. This is my first post on this forum. I've recently purchased a new 2002 LeMans (I couldn't pass it up, is was such a good deal) and found the same problem as everyone else. Of course, after reading the various suggestions, I just had to try it myself and, not surprisingly, got similar results as others in that it started nearly right away. It didn't take 5 seconds, but it did turn over for 2 to 3 seconds.

 

BTW, the method I tried was the 1/2 throttle position This is a 300% improvement over the standard (as explained by the dealership <_ method of starting the bike. it usually takes me no less than a button push and few times as much most anoying...>

 

Thanks for the information. Great site too!

 

Bruno

[Guest davidb]

Try this.. Lay down next to your bike and disconnect the evap canister hose that goes to the throttle bodies and put a plug in the hose. You could have a stuck ball check in the canister causing your bike to suck air instead of gas fumes. I would bet there is something out of adjustment or a fuel/ spark/vacuum problem. of course I could be full of shit since my guzzi broke down in 1000 miles.