Pressureangle Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 I'd fully serviced my relay connections with DeOxit, tightened spades and installed genuine (?) Omron relays per much discussion. I was in Daytona this weekend (not preferred, but old friends in town) and after a half hour of stop-n-go traffic in hot sun, 88*, just as I approaching a parking lot I began losing power, eventually barely moving, then only idling, then sputtering to a stop. Fortunately I drifted into a parking spot. I immediately removed the rear seat and felt the relays (1100 sport has 4) 3 were hot, #2, fuel pump, was too hot. I restarted twice, both times with sputtering and dying. I installed one of the spare relays we all carry and it seemed all was right again. Obviously, the air, pavement, and engine temps were very high, with no air movement under the seat. Also, my bike only holds 12.4 volts at idle, so current through the relay was higher than at RPM. It's rare that I enter any sort of traffic, but I thought a simple enough solution is to mount a computer fan to blow across them. There's plenty of room outboard in the tailpiece, so I'll be doing some discovery on that pretty soon. I'll see if I can't engineer some test scenarios with heat gun and pictures. 5
MartyNZ Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 It would be interesting to know if the heat comes from internal to the relay, or just from the engine. If engine heat is the cause of your problem, then an added baffle and reflective panel may be simpler to fit than a fan. I'm not familiar with the 1100 Sport, but is it possible that a cooling air path past the relays is blocked by extra gear under the seat? Something like a pack of spare relays? Have you considered vapor lock? I fixed a similar problem on my external pump V11 by adding reflective insulation on the pump and filter. 2
Joe Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 Charging system too weak, especially at idle? Low voltage high current could eat the relay coils and be the source of the heat. Wrong voltage relay coil, circuit has a short to ground?
al_roethlisberger Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 Would replacing the OEM "mini" relays as used OEM with the larger "cube" automotive relays help with the ongoing relay issues that many are having over the last 20+ years? As in cars, one sees both these "mini" and larger "cube" relays mixed in use, clearly to account for higher electrical demands. Obviously the larger relay(s) would take up more room, but perhaps only certain high current circuits would benefit, so not all would need to be changed. In theory, one could even build (or maybe one exists) an adapter cable that could plug into the existing "mini" socket and extend to a remote location for the larger relay. 1
Pressureangle Posted March 7, 2023 Author Posted March 7, 2023 15 hours ago, MartyNZ said: It would be interesting to know if the heat comes from internal to the relay, or just from the engine. If engine heat is the cause of your problem, then an added baffle and reflective panel may be simpler to fit than a fan. I'm not familiar with the 1100 Sport, but is it possible that a cooling air path past the relays is blocked by extra gear under the seat? Something like a pack of spare relays? Have you considered vapor lock? I fixed a similar problem on my external pump V11 by adding reflective insulation on the pump and filter. Yes, I considered much; the symptoms were very similar to losing a cam position sensor. But replacing the relay brought it instantly back to normal. I saved the old relay, and I'll be decapitating it to see what it looks like inside. There isn't much room for anything under the rear seat, just a small compartment behind the battery and in front of the taillamp.
Tomchri Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 No engine heat problem, to far away. Smells more like a Shindengen fix . Cheers Tom. 5
docc Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Tomchri said: No engine heat problem, to far away. Smells more like a Shindengen fix . Cheers Tom. +1 . . . Many of you know what a champion I have been on the HIGH Current OMRON (and now the High Current CIT). I am currently on my 7th generation of relays. (Yep, I got to say "Current" and "currently" in the same post. ) Ironically, my only relay failures have been the High Current OMRON G8HE. I traced this to a faulty regulator combined with probable voltage spikes from a failing Yellow Wire connection from the stator. 5
Pressureangle Posted March 8, 2023 Author Posted March 8, 2023 14 hours ago, Tomchri said: No engine heat problem, to far away. Smells more like a Shindengen fix . Cheers Tom. I actually bought a Shindengen kit, but there is no convenient location. If I install it, I'll have to spend a lot more time studying the problem.
docc Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Pressureangle said: I actually bought a Shindengen kit, but there is no convenient location. If I install it, I'll have to spend a lot more time studying the problem. Are there indications to simply replace with an OEM regulator? Does the 1100 Sport have same vulnerable yellow output wires that are prone to breaking off at her stator? 3
Pressureangle Posted March 8, 2023 Author Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, docc said: Are there indications to simply replace with an OEM regulator? Does the 1100 Sport have same vulnerable yellow output wires that are prone to breaking off at her stator? Yes, the wires are yellow and I'd not lean on them too hard. When I did the cam gear set, I had it all off for a thorough inspection. Subsequently the voltage started varying so I verified the entire charging system; I found the connector for one of the yellow wires to have some corrosion, so remade everything. It charges better than it ever has, always between 14.4 and 14.8 at speed and goes over 13.0 by 1500rpm. It's just weak at idle. I do have an aftermarket fuel pump, perhaps it draws more than the stock pump did. 4
docc Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 Can you get a connection on guzzidiag to verify the actual idle speed, or is that ECU too early? What is you idle speed on the tachometer?
Pressureangle Posted March 8, 2023 Author Posted March 8, 2023 51 minutes ago, docc said: Can you get a connection on guzzidiag to verify the actual idle speed, or is that ECU too early? What is you idle speed on the tachometer? Guzzidiag? What's that do? I have a Jeffries MyECU. Yes, my idle speed on the tach is within ~50rpm of actual at idle. I keep it to 1150-ish. 1
audiomick Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, Pressureangle said: Guzzidiag? What's that do? Reads out the engine managemant system. I haven't used it yet, but it is a pretty cool thing. I believe it should be able to read out an 1100 Sport i.e., but I'm not 100% sure. This bloke knows a lot about it: https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/profile/136-paul-minnaert/
docc Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I looked and do see the Sport 1100-i as a selection in guzzidiag. Probably not valid in this case because of the Cliff Jeffries myECU ? 1
audiomick Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, docc said: ...the Cliff Jeffries myECU ? It looks like he supplies some kind of analysis program. I guess one would have to contact him and ask. Quote MyECU and the communication cable https://www.myecu.biz/MyECU/index.htm
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