Broken Torque Rod Bolt

[al_roethlisberger]

Shouldn't the nylok/nylock nut really be replaced after one use as well, especially for something that crucial, or is that overkill?

 

I've been told for ages that for really important applications, the nylon locking nuts are meant to be used once. 

https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/All-Categories/Nylon_Insert_Lock_Nuts_Waxed

 

https://provenproductivity.com/correct-use-of-nylon-insert-locknuts/

 

https://www.huyett.com/blog/lock-nuts

[p6x]

5 minutes ago, al_roethlisberger said:

Shouldn't the nylok/nylock nut really be replaced after one use as well, especially for something that crucial, or is that overkill?

I've been told for ages that for really important applications, the nylon locking nuts are meant to be used once. 

 

This is exactly what they taught us in school. The nylstop nuts can only be used once.

Exactly like the metaloplastic washers. Single use.

However, we had a discussion on this forum about the best way to prevent nuts to unscrew; Loctite seems to be the best way. There are several strengths.

[al_roethlisberger]

12 minutes ago, p6x said:

This is exactly what they taught us in school. The nylstop nuts can only be used once.

Exactly like the metaloplastic washers. Single use.

However, we had a discussion on this forum about the best way to prevent nuts to unscrew; Loctite seems to be the best way. There are several strengths.

Agree, but just wondering if one is already replacing the bolt, one might consider picking up a new nylock nut too

 

[LowRyter]

Perhaps they should've sleeved that bolt?  

[leroysch]

21 hours ago, p6x said:

When I was working at my battle tank factory, all the components affixed to the chassis and exposed to the environment where treated against corrosion. I think Cadmium plated. Support wheels, road wheels, sprockets, tension pulleys...

 

 

Decades ago, working at the missile factory, hardware I was responsible for was Cd plated. But as this got additional visibility (OSHA website):

Cadmium and its compounds are highly toxic and exposure to this metal is known to cause cancer and targets the body's cardiovascular, renal, gastrointestinal, neurological, reproductive, and respiratory systems.

changed out to CRES.

[al_roethlisberger]

1 hour ago, leroysch said:

Decades ago, working at the missile factory, hardware I was responsible for was Cd plated. But as this got additional visibility (OSHA website):

Cadmium and its compounds are highly toxic and exposure to this metal is known to cause cancer and targets the body's cardiovascular, renal, gastrointestinal, neurological, reproductive, and respiratory systems.

changed out to CRES.

 

A lot of vintage audio equipment chassis that look like they are brushed or "silver" plated are actually cadmium as well. 

Don't go sanding, grinding on it or licking it  

[p6x]

1 hour ago, leroysch said:

Decades ago, working at the missile factory, hardware I was responsible for was Cd plated. But as this got additional visibility (OSHA website):

Cadmium and its compounds are highly toxic and exposure to this metal is known to cause cancer and targets the body's cardiovascular, renal, gastrointestinal, neurological, reproductive, and respiratory systems.

changed out to CRES.

Yes! and I used disc grinders on battle tanks to remove excess metal, or on the AMX 10 series chassis made of Aluminum. At the time, we only wore goggles to protect our eyes. Dust from the discs, steel and Aluminum flying everywhere....

Later on, other job, I had to transfer oil samples using mercury. Again without proper PPE. Eventually, mercury was banned. But not before it accumulated in my kidneys, where it is still today.

Lol....

[LowRyter]

Best to all of you that were exposed. 

[docc]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:38 PM, docc said:

Is this all about the corrosion vulnerability?

 

5 hours ago, al_roethlisberger said:

 . . .  if one is already replacing the bolt, one might consider picking up a new nylock nut too

 

Yes? And, yes?

[edit: Yes. And, yes.]

 Also, consider the two "Fastening Methods", one of which places a washer under the bolt head with the "spacer" under the NyLoc nut, and the other Fastening Method that places the spacer under the bolt head with nothing under the nut.

This second configuration is what I have, and what we see in LowRyter's shared image (nothing under the nut; undesirable?):

[al_roethlisberger]

20 minutes ago, docc said:

 

Yes? And, yes?

[edit: Yes. And, yes.]

 Also, consider the two "Fastening Methods", one of which places a washer under the bolt head with the "spacer" under the NyLoc nut, and the other Fastening Method that places the spacer under the bolt head with nothing under the nut.

This second configuration is what I have, and what we see in LowRyter's shared image (nothing under the nut; undesirable?):

 

Eeeeenteresting question...

If the spacer is under the locknut, is there enough room for the nut & spacer?

The attached parts diagrams add to the confusion perhaps, although don't contradict your experience either    I wonder why the two options are shown?

 

[docc]

1 minute ago, al_roethlisberger said:

 

Eeeeenteresting question...

If the spacer is under the locknut, is there enough room for the nut & spacer?

The attached parts diagrams add to the confusion perhaps, although don't contradict your experience either    I wonder why the two options are shown?

 

And, then,  that the 2004 parts diagram returns to the "washer + spacer" fastening . . .

[audiomick]

@ Al:

I noticed that too. It says "1st series" and "2nd series", which indicates that Guzzi changed it during the model run. Looks like they added a washer under the nut.

[docc]

Are these bolts breaking from a combination of corrosion neglect and the absence of an interface (washer/spacer) beneath the nutted side?

[Speedfrog]

31 minutes ago, audiomick said:

@ Al:

I noticed that too. It says "1st series" and "2nd series", which indicates that Guzzi changed it during the model run. Looks like they added a washer under the nut.

Not just the washer — the bolt and the associated nut have a different part #.

[al_roethlisberger]

The bolt in "1st Series" is specified as M10x55, and in that configuration the parts diagram only shows the part # 14 "washer" under the bolt head.  So this earlier bolt is 4mm shorter than the later bolt, perhaps to accommodate both washer and spacer?

The bolt in "2nd Series" is specified as M10x59, and uses part # 14 "washer" under the bolt head, and part # 19 "spacer" under the nut.

The difference in the two M10 nylock nuts is thread pitch, which for "1st Series" is 1.5 and for "2nd Series" is 1.25, so as mentioned earlier that means that the earlier "1st Series" bolt is 1.5 pitch and the "2nd Series" is 1.25 pitch.

...at least according to the parts manual I was consulting