Is there a condensed thread about Startus Interruptus...?

[p6x]

@radguzzi

When my V11 refused to crank, I purchased a Motobatt from www.motobatt.com

with it, you can run a few tests:

Battery state of charge, which you can usually do using a voltmeter

Battery cranking ability, which requires testing the battery under load, but in this case the tester does it itself.

Charging system voltage ouput.

Starter motor test.

The Part# is MBT.

The tester costs peanuts, and in 5 minutes, you will be able to verify what could be wrong...

[docc]

2 hours ago, radguzzi said:

I have not taken a reading while cranking.. ahh when it does lol      I had checked the charging across the battery while it was running a couple of days ago.  I'll check the cranking volts with assistance from wife, Sue..   Is 12.65 too low for that battery...?

Also do the ground, that was next, and I ran out of time this afternoon, lot goin' on...  Bummer about the starter mounting bolts,  I Just had the cover off and moved the shock reservoir to clean the positive lug.   I will be able to do that again quicker this time.

Any thoughts on the clutch lever cut out...?  

I had a 2000 Quota that lost its magnets and that just jammed them against the starter case and locked up the starter.  This V11 still does run so there's that...

Thanks,

rad__

 

If it were the clutch safety switch, or its nefarious "bullet connectors", there would not be a peep when the starter button is thumbed. "Locked out."

I have seen shifted starter magnets that would still allow the starter to turn, although reluctantly.

I think you're still looking at a series of flaky connections. Those grounds are critical so that the start current doesn't try to find its way back through the harness.

If the battery is an Odyssey PC545 (OEM), then it should be properly "conditioned" at 12.65 volts (12.84 is 100%). If it drops below 10 volts when the starter tries to engage, it may be toast. There is a date code on it if it's a PC545. (What kind of battery is it?)

edit: It occurs to me for you to put a jump wire on the starter solenoid and touch it to the battery positive. MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the bike is in neutral, ignition off. Just looking for the starter to spin. If it does, then it is not the starter or the battery, but "things" in between.

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

I purchased a Motobatt from www.motobatt.com

Don't mean to sound picky, but you probably mean a tester there, right?

When I read "Motobatt" alone, I think of batteries. I've had a couple of them in the V35 Imola.

So, assuming you mean a tester, which one?

[p6x]

7 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Don't mean to sound picky, but you probably mean a tester there, right?

When I read "Motobatt" alone, I think of batteries. I've had a couple of them in the V35 Imola.

So, assuming you mean a tester, which one?

https://www.motobatt.com/en/product/mb-t

[LowRyter]

9 hours ago, al_roethlisberger said:

There must have been some cosmic energy around this topic floating around the Universe today 

MPH Cycles makes a pre-made kit for this issue, and sells the kit for newer models on their website:

 

Moto Guzzi | Startus Interuptus | Starter Relay Kit | MPH Cycles | Texas | Norge | Breva | Griso |

 

The kits listed on the website are only for Breva, Norge and Griso models.  MPH developed an entirely different kit for the earlier bikes (V11 Sports / LeMans, V10 Centauro) late last year but it is not advertised on the website.

Cost for the V11 kit is $70.00 which includes postage within USA.

I just heard from MPH today that they how have those kits for the earlier (V11) bikes available again.

Please reach out to MPH directly if interested.

 

Just curious, any idea what's in the kit?  

[radguzzi]

Well, this falls in the no s**t ..? category.  

We are in the middle of a huge painting project so I can only steal away for short burst of time.  This morning the V11 did not start, and I was preparing to do the jumper wire from the solenoid to the + battery side and I had the brilliant thought (rare) to try the old "tap the end of the starter" like you would on the old '63 Chevy trick...

I started right up.  I did this several times, starting the engine and shut it down until it would not start again, repeat the tap and boom, starts. 

Now I will say that on one occasion of the starter button only offering up the Click of the replay, I pushed it a few times and that brought the starting.  

I had thought that the tapping on the starter was a sure sign that the starter has a sticking Bendix or needed a cleaning but this episode of hitting the button several times put a wrench in that...

Hints...?

I cannot get back out to the garage for a bit, later tonight. 

Rob 

 

 

 

 

[al_roethlisberger]

14 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Just curious, any idea what's in the kit?  

 

Not off hand as I haven't received the kit yet, and Kim let me know that they've only sold one of these new (year old) kits for the V11 so far, to an owner in Europe who they never heard back from him to hear how well it did or did not work.

So I guess I'll be the second or third recipient of the kit as one other owner from Maine just contacted her as well. 

She asked me, and I assume the other owner, to please provide feedback if there are any issues or other observations so they can improve the product if necessary.

But my assumption is that like most of these modifications I've seen elsewhere; the starter power is now shunted through a direct connection to the battery, and the starter button no longer will be carrying the load, instead just triggering a relay?  If so this would be similar to the headlight circuit modifications that do the same for the headlight switch.

They've been selling a kit for other models now for 10+ years with very positive feedback.

 

Here is what the MPH kit looks like for the Norge, etc, but apparently the V11 kit is a little more involved:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=48127.0

 

Some other background on this particular issue for some owners of various MG bikes:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80041.0

 

[radguzzi]

@al_roethlisberger

I am the one from Maine that contacted Kim at MPH...  and I am not yet certain whether this LeMans requires the kit, still troubleshooting...  

I'd like to get back to the initial subject.  Any opinion about whether the "tapping the starter" routine indicates a certain condition or state of the starter..?  

Thanks,

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

[radguzzi]

@docc

I put a meter on the battery while cranking, the battery had been depleted to about 12.04 at rest and under cranking it dipped to 10.33.

What is that telling me...? 

=====================

Also, I have not yet tried the jumper.  I'll put the battery on a tender for the night and do that in the AM, after checking the main ground.

Diggin' the troubleshooting. 

rad__

 

 

[docc]

What kind of battery is it? AGM, and Odyssey in particular, have specific charging parameters.

[radguzzi]

52 minutes ago, docc said:

What kind of battery is it? AGM, and Odyssey in particular, have specific charging parameters.

This...

 

I use Odessey batteries in three of my cycles and I have the correct charger for them.  It comes up to green on the charge scale in good time, I am not certain why it discharged to 12.04 so quickly, possibly due to my trying to start it for two days...lol 

Does that 230CCA seem too low to you...?  

 

 

[docc]

10 minutes ago, radguzzi said:

Does that 230CCA seem too low to you...?  

 

 

Not at all. But 12.04 volts for an AGM is ded, Jim. The Odyssey would require "conditioning" to restore. Not sure what to do with that battery except go by the manufacturer's charging recommendation.

The Odyssey would never recover without charging it with 6 or more amps.

EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE! That battery states : "Must be mounted in the upright position. " 

[radguzzi]

17 minutes ago, docc said:

Not at all. But 12.04 volts for an AGM is ded, Jim. The Odyssey would require "conditioning" to restore. Not sure what to do with that battery except go by the manufacturer's charging recommendation.

The Odyssey would never recover without charging it with 6 or more amps.

EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE! That battery states : "Must be mounted in the upright position. " 

 

Regarding the battery recovering, that is not down too far at 12.04, below that would certainly require a longer charge.

 

I cannot believe that the owner and I have missed that statement.  I'll give it one more good charge and when the ground is clean I'll let him know that prolly should get a new battery.

 

 

[audiomick]

8 hours ago, radguzzi said:

...the battery had been depleted to about 12.04 at rest and under cranking it dipped to 10.33.

I have it from various reliable sources that if the battery voltage drops below about 10V under load (e.g. cranking), it is time for a new one. However that is assuming a full charge, I believe.

I would suggest having another look at that when the battery is known to be fully charged, just in case.

[radguzzi]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:05 PM, docc said:

 

If the battery is an Odyssey PC545 (OEM), then it should be properly "conditioned" at 12.65 volts (12.84 is 100%). If it drops below 10 volts when the starter tries to engage, it may be toast. There is a date code on it if it's a PC545. (What kind of battery is it?)

edit: It occurs to me for you to put a jump wire on the starter solenoid and touch it to the battery positive. MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the bike is in neutral, ignition off. Just looking for the starter to spin. If it does, then it is not the starter or the battery, but "things" in between.

Two things...

1/ - Is the PC 545 the correct Odyssey or the V11...?  I use a much larger Odyssey on the EVs and the V1000 Convert. 

2/ - Which contact on the starter solenoid...?  The lug with the nut or the blade with a connector...?  If it is the blade, should the connector be taken off..?

Thanks,

rad__