Is there a condensed thread about Startus Interruptus...?

[audiomick]

6 hours ago, docc said:

Someone here knows what to take off to visually inspect the magnets . . .

I read about that here just the other day. If I remember correctly, one can remove the back end / cover and look in.

[radguzzi]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

I read about that here just the other day. If I remember correctly, one can remove the back end / cover and look in.

No, at least not this one, a Valeo. I pulled the rear cap off and had a peek, two sets of brushes and the associated coiled up wires.  I did not dare go any farther for fear of little bits flying all over the place. 

I wish I had taken a photo or two for the record of the repair. 

Gene tells me that the solenoid is not straight forward to remove and service, there are two bolts holding it in place, one is accessible from outside the case, the other is inside which forces disassembly of the starter. 

More later.  Thanks audiomick.

rad__

 

[docc]

14 minutes ago, radguzzi said:

No, at least not this one, a Valeo. I pulled the rear cap off and had a peek, two sets of brushes and the associated coiled up wires.  I did not dare go any farther for fear of little bits flying all over the place. 

I wish I had taken a photo or two for the record of the repair. 

Gene tells me that the solenoid is not straight forward to remove and service, there are two bolts holding it in place, one is accessible from outside the case, the other is inside which forces disassembly of the starter. 

More later.  Thanks audiomick.

rad__

 

Yeah, I recall there is "some disassembly required" to get to the magnets . . .

At which point the inspection will be telling. This starter was locked:

 

[radguzzi]

32 minutes ago, docc said:

Yeah, I recall there is "some disassembly required" to get to the magnets . . .

At which point the inspection will be telling. This starter was locked:

 

 

See, just as happy that I did not go all cowboy on this and pull the starter apart.  If it were mine I would but for fear of causing more damage, I decided to go for a blast and drop it off with Gene.

Thanks docc...

 

[radguzzi]

Cool.

I retrieved the starter from Gene the Starter Guy.  He cleaned the commutator and solenoid, there was a great deal of oil residue and build up of gunk that was getting into the solenoid can intermittently stopping the current from offering full trust to the flywheel.  If I understand him correctly...

No unglued magnets.

I do not see oil from either the engine rear main or trans front seal looking into the starter opening on the engine however, the gunk-up solenoid was the issue.  Twenty-on year old Guzzi...

 

I have cycled the starter thirty (30) times and it does not fail to start... I shut the engine off by both the ignition switch and the kill switch, and turned the bars left to right repeatedly looking for wire strain in the switch, it always started.

 

Thanks much for the assistance here.

You guys are the best.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

[audiomick]

3 hours ago, radguzzi said:

 the gunk-up solenoid was the issue.  Twenty-on year old Guzzi...

Guzzi has no monopoly on that one. Twenty year old almost anything can have it.

[80CX100]

5 hours ago, radguzzi said:

  He cleaned the commutator and solenoid, there was a great deal of oil residue and build up of gunk that was getting into the solenoid can intermittently stopping the current from offering full trust to the flywheel. 

 

I do not see oil from either the engine rear main or trans front seal looking into the starter opening on the engine however, the gunk-up solenoid was the issue.  Twenty-on year old Guzzi...

 

 

It would be nice to know where that oil came from;iirc in the hoses that normally drain to the ground behind the starter cover,isn't one of those a crank case vent hose,possibly the bike was over filled with oil at some point or the crank case hose has cracked where it's attached to the engine.

Along the same thought,if the tranny was over filled and the clutch push rod slave cylinder was loose,could it leak onto the solenoid if the bike was leaning over on it's side stand for a long time.

fwiw idk

[radguzzi]

23 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

It would be nice to know where that oil came from;iirc in the hoses that normally drain to the ground behind the starter cover,isn't one of those a crank case vent hose,possibly the bike was over filled with oil at some point or the crank case hose has cracked where it's attached to the engine.

Along the same thought,if the tranny was over filled and the clutch push rod slave cylinder was loose,could it leak onto the solenoid if the bike was leaning over on it's side stand for a long time.

fwiw idk

Yup, same here.  The starter guy said it was wet so oil for sure.  Along with just plain gunk.  Over time they just get full of stuff, some of that must be clutch wear...? 

You bring up a good point regarding oil level.  This one, as it sits is not too high but who knows the case history over the past twenty-one years.  I always encourage owners to run the level between the hi and lo marks.  A tell-tale of over filling is excess oil draining from the filter box and gummed up throttle bodies. 

All good now.

Cheers,

Rob 

[docc]

The closest oily source to the starter is the crankcase vent return line from the side of the spine frame to the sump. This is routed across the starter under a relief in the plastic cover. If that became abraded from chafing, perhaps it might affect the solenoid?

There is also the nefarious primary crankcase vent that comes up from the back of the engine just inboard of the starter.

Worth looking at as contamination sources . . .