MotoGP

[p6x]

4 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I just read that a NASCAR team was taking over the satellite Aprilia team after DORNA banned the incumbent.  

Good catch!

Indeed; however the previous owner of the team, the company "CryptoData" is staging a fight in front of the tribunals, publishing a letter stating that Dorna was abusing its dominant position in wanting to replace them with a new US based sponsor, which was a better fit for MotoGP, since it may provides future opportunities to increase its popularity in the USA.

Here's the letter CryptoData sent to Dorna: https://www.gpone.com/en/2023/11/27/motogp/cryptodata-replies-to-dorna-its-like-a-comedy-movie-well-see-you-in-court.html?refresh_ce

So they seemed to have been pushed out for repeatedly breaking MotoGP sponsorship regulations. I don't know what those rules and regulations are, but there were some rumors of the team members not receiving their salaries on time. I don't know if this is true.

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, LaGrasta said:

With this said, I sort of thought they should have allowed him by, considering it was a last chance, championship deciding race.

To make that sort of decision, you have to know who is breathing down your neck. Those blokes don't have mirrors. My limited experience with driving in circles, not even races, just "training sessions", tells me you don't pay that much attention to who exactly it is behind you. You're only interested in staying in front of them.

[p6x]

Today, Tuesday 28th of November 2023 were the first testing session for 2024; many pilots were discovering their new bikes for the first time.

Including Marc Marquez which sported an absolutely incredibly gorgeous livrée, both his Ducati Gresini and his racing suit.

I don't know if this is going to be final, most likely not as there aren't yet any sponsor shown on the fairing. I guess the red was symbolic as being the Ducati racing identity.

As for the competitiveness, I don't think anyone will be surprised when they look at the time sheets. As anticipated, he is within the best, even if we are not going to judge anything since it is a test session where is only discovering his new team and motorcycle. I am also guessing that having your brother on the same package, inside your garage is a plus.

I include the link to his first ride.... you need to click on "watch on YouTube" as Dorna needs the stats to register.

 

 

[GuzziMoto]

14 hours ago, audiomick said:

To make that sort of decision, you have to know who is breathing down your neck. Those blokes don't have mirrors. My limited experience with driving in circles, not even races, just "training sessions", tells me you don't pay that much attention to who exactly it is behind you. You're only interested in staying in front of them.

Vinales knew who it was, pretty sure Martin passed him a couple times and Vinales slipped right back by, but even before then Vinales pit board would have told him who is behind him. But passing others is what Vinales is paid to do and what he enjoys doing. It is called racing. For Martin to suggest Vinales should have done anything less is crazy. About the only thing Vinales "owed" to Martin at that point was to race him clean and not risk putting one of the championship contenders on the ground. And Vinales did do that, he raced Martin clean but hard. Kudo's to Vinales. Martin was not going to win the title that day, it was out of his hands. But his performance wasn't worthy of winning the title regardless. The guy who deserved the title won the title.

I am not sure Martin is ready to win the title. He seems like he still has some growing up to do.

[p6x]

14 hours ago, audiomick said:

To make that sort of decision, you have to know who is breathing down your neck. Those blokes don't have mirrors. My limited experience with driving in circles, not even races, just "training sessions", tells me you don't pay that much attention to who exactly it is behind you. You're only interested in staying in front of them.

Mick, if we believe what was reported, Marc Marquez knew Jorge Martin was behind him, and Jorge Martin said that he, himself, knew that Marc knew it. Simon Crafar who is a Dorna employee as well as notorious former motorcycle racer, said that Marc's behavior had been appalling, as he should not have gone out of himself to make it arduous for Jorge to get by. Not implying that he had to let him go through, but not pulling all the stops to prevent an overtake, given that Jorge was fighting for the world tittle, and Marquez was not! (does it ring any bell?)...

I understand that racing is racing, and you do not have to accomodate anyone's aspirations, and only follow yours. However, by and I state Jorge Martin's comments: "he released the brakes purposely when he got what pass I was attempting", he also gambled his own race by finishing in the gravels. That after he sent Bezzecchi back to the garage.

Whenever there is some controversy going around, often Marc Marquez name appears. Besides that, he surely is a fantastic racer.

[GuzziMoto]

I am not a fan of Marc Marquez, but I do respect his talent. The crash between him and Martin was 100% on Martin, Marquez did nothing wrong. No one out there, except Martin's team mate, was in any way obligated to let Martin through. Zarco was the only guy out there that might have a stake in helping Martin do better, and even that is debatable. All everyone else was obligated to do was to race Martin (and Pecco) clean. Marc Marquez did that. Sadly, Martin did not return the favor to Marc. Martin was behind Marquez by his own fault. It was not Marquez's fault Martin was behind him. That was on Martin. At that point, it was up to Martin to cleanly pass Marc Marquez. He was unable to do so, and instead he put Marquez on the ground in a vicious wreck. Martin gesticulating at Marquez after he wrecked Marquez was pathetic. He was the guy that put them both on the ground, not Marquez.

Martin needed to be more patient, he had a faster bike then Marquez did. He should have been able to pass Marquez without putting one or both of them on the ground.

Martin needs to grow up.

 

Also, the crash between Marquesz and Bezzecchi was not as clear cut as Marquez taking out Bezzecchi from what I have seen. That looked to be a racing incident, with Marquez clearly up the inside of Bezzecchi but Bezzecchi tried to close the door when it was too late. The overhead shot of the crash seems to show it pretty clearly I am told.

[LowRyter]

I've not read Martin's side of it.  If true, then Marc got what he deserved.  Too bad for Martin. 

Marc's bike looks cool, no wings on the back either.  One of Marc's fans on another forum has already predicted another title for him.  If he does contend again, he'd better hope that half dozen grudges against him don't pay him back.  There are three VR46 guys out there.  

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto

This is an interesting topic. For which there will never be a single answer;

Marquez was not really pursuing anything if excepted to get the most forward achievable position. Was it ethically correct to resist an overtake at all costs, given the speed at which Martin came back on him? Marquez did nothing illegal by attempting to prevent Martin to pass him. He did not try to make it easy, but according to Martin, he went out of his way to sabotage it, as he released the brakes to prevent Martin to go through unscathed.

I agree with you that Marquez did not have to help Martin to make the pass, but as he was going to be overtaken, he chose to risk a hazardous maneuver that ended in Martin having nowhere to go, and clipping Marquez' rear wheel.

Marquez said it was a racing incident. It was. Marquez defended his position at all costs, well aware that Martin was desperately trying to get back to the front.

In any case, this was a moot point, since Francesco Bagnaia's position within the first 6th would not have changed the title situation.

You are correct about Zarco; he had said before the race that he would have helped Martin if the situation had required it. He would have let him through or win.

Now would he have also tried to prevent Francesco Bagnaia to pass him at all costs if Martin had been heading the race, and Bagnaia behind Zarco at the 7th position, needed to be 6th to become champion? this is how I am looking at it when I analyze what Marquez did. I don't pretend that I am right in my opinion, but I think it would have been the appropriate way for Marquez to behave. Not facilitate the pass, but not jeopardize it.

That being said, I do not think Jorge Martin lost the title at Valencia; he did before that. Jorge Martin should have not trusted MM93, and should have waited to make a clean pass.

By the way, MM93 was 100% responsible for causing Bezzecchi to crash, and got away without any penalty. Something that Bezzecchi reported as two tiers justice when it comes to Marquez.

[GuzziMoto]

56 minutes ago, p6x said:

@GuzziMoto

This is an interesting topic. For which there will never be a single answer;

Marquez was not really pursuing anything if excepted to get the most forward achievable position. Was it ethically correct to resist an overtake at all costs, given the speed at which Martin came back on him? Marquez did nothing illegal by attempting to prevent Martin to pass him. He did not try to make it easy, but according to Martin, he went out of his way to sabotage it, as he released the brakes to prevent Martin to go through unscathed.

I agree with you that Marquez did not have to help Martin to make the pass, but as he was going to be overtaken, he chose to risk a hazardous maneuver that ended in Martin having nowhere to go, and clipping Marquez' rear wheel.

Marquez said it was a racing incident. It was. Marquez defended his position at all costs, well aware that Martin was desperately trying to get back to the front.

In any case, this was a moot point, since Francesco Bagnaia's position within the first 6th would not have changed the title situation.

You are correct about Zarco; he had said before the race that he would have helped Martin if the situation had required it. He would have let him through or win.

Now would he have also tried to prevent Francesco Bagnaia to pass him at all costs if Martin had been heading the race, and Bagnaia behind Zarco at the 7th position, needed to be 6th to become champion? this is how I am looking at it when I analyze what Marquez did. I don't pretend that I am right in my opinion, but I think it would have been the appropriate way for Marquez to behave. Not facilitate the pass, but not jeopardize it.

That being said, I do not think Jorge Martin lost the title at Valencia; he did before that. Jorge Martin should have not trusted MM93, and should have waited to make a clean pass.

By the way, MM93 was 100% responsible for causing Bezzecchi to crash, and got away without any penalty. Something that Bezzecchi reported as two tiers justice when it comes to Marquez.

In the Martin / Marquez crash, it was Martin that took the risk. It was Martin that made the low odds risky move. I am not surprised Martin thinks it was Marquez's fault, but I am surprised that anyone else agrees with him. He literally ran over Marquez from behind. Marquez was racing Martin, cleanly I might add (that is not always a given with Marquez). It was Martin that ran into Marquez from behind. A basic rule in racing is that it is the responsibility of the rider behind to make a clean pass, to pass the other guy without hitting him or otherwise causing him to crash. In no way did Martin deliver on that.

I am not a fan of Marc Marquez, he historically has been a dirty rider, a guy who would hit others (often knocking them down) while passing. Sometimes he even had room to make a clean pass, but would still hit the other guy as if to make a point. I don't like Marquez. But in this case Marquez did nothing wrong. He was doing what all racers should do, race as hard as he can for every position cleanly. That Martin was in the fight for the championship should not enter into it. I don't understand why Martin thinks he deserved special treatment, that others should have let him through.

No matter, Martin had already lost any chance at the title with his earlier mistake in the race. So now it is just sour grapes. Instead of owning his mistakes he instead deflects and blames others. Lame.

As to the Marquez / Bezzecchi crash have you watched the overhead video? That shows the two racers going into the corner side by side and Bezzechi turns in like Marquez isn't there. I get that Bezzecchi thinks it is the other guys fault,  but that doesn't make it so. The overhead video seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

[Lucky Phil]

Martin lost the championship because he's a hot head that rides on emotion and bravado and lets his emotions on the track overwhelm him which leads to poor choices. The crash was his fault entirely. I can see an argument for a rider in Marquezes place not engaging with a guy in the title fight at the last round UNLESS that rider has made the total balls up Martin did then it's a straight fight for track position. Bezzecchi is correct Marquez is a protected species and caused his crash. Marquez is a PITA and gets away with way too much in my view. Getting towed around to a decent grid position in Qualifying is a joke. All it means is there is a slower rider without the actual raw speed further up the grid to @#!#$# everyone else around and get in their way come the race.

It should go to the old WSB style Qualifying of the one lap shootout where each rider has a warmup lap and then he's got one lap alone on the track to lay down his best time. A true reflection of the riders actual speed and all the yellow flag bullshit is eliminated. BSB has gone back to this system. Then you don't have riders that don't have the actual raw speed without getting a tow in the way at the front of the grid and causing mayhem in the first 1/3 of the race. Marquez knows he hasn't got the raw speed so goes high risk at the start of the races and rolls the dice which often either takes another rider out or at the very least ruins their race by holding them up. Chances of this system being implemented? Zero.

 

Phil

[Tomchri]

Like Guzzi Moto said, look at the overhead video. Not much movement in MM's bike. 

Time will tell  .

Cheers Tom.

[p6x]

6 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

In the Martin / Marquez crash, it was Martin that took the risk. It was Martin that made the low odds risky move. I am not surprised Martin thinks it was Marquez's fault, but I am surprised that anyone else agrees with him. He literally ran over Marquez from behind. Marquez was racing Martin, cleanly I might add (that is not always a given with Marquez). It was Martin that ran into Marquez from behind. A basic rule in racing is that it is the responsibility of the rider behind to make a clean pass, to pass the other guy without hitting him or otherwise causing him to crash. In no way did Martin deliver on that.

I am not a fan of Marc Marquez, he historically has been a dirty rider, a guy who would hit others (often knocking them down) while passing. Sometimes he even had room to make a clean pass, but would still hit the other guy as if to make a point. I don't like Marquez. But in this case Marquez did nothing wrong. He was doing what all racers should do, race as hard as he can for every position cleanly. That Martin was in the fight for the championship should not enter into it. I don't understand why Martin thinks he deserved special treatment, that others should have let him through.

No matter, Martin had already lost any chance at the title with his earlier mistake in the race. So now it is just sour grapes. Instead of owning his mistakes he instead deflects and blames others. Lame.

As to the Marquez / Bezzecchi crash have you watched the overhead video? That shows the two racers going into the corner side by side and Bezzechi turns in like Marquez isn't there. I get that Bezzecchi thinks it is the other guys fault,  but that doesn't make it so. The overhead video seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

Just for the sake of the discussion, with regards to the Martin / Marquez collision, from looking at the video, Martin attempts to squeeze in the inside past Marquez. Marquez sees it coming, and release the brakes; Martin no longer has the ability to pass Marquez, however because of his residual speed, he can't make the turn. He would have had intended to be in front of Marquez, not behind. Marquez could have let him go through, and pick him up as Jorge Martin would have not been able to keep the apex anyway.

For Bezzecchi and Marquez, I could not find a replay of the crash;

Here's a YT video showing some stills. It appears that Bezzecchi is ahead of Marquez.

 

[GuzziMoto]

16 hours ago, p6x said:

Just for the sake of the discussion, with regards to the Martin / Marquez collision, from looking at the video, Martin attempts to squeeze in the inside past Marquez. Marquez sees it coming, and release the brakes; Martin no longer has the ability to pass Marquez, however because of his residual speed, he can't make the turn. He would have had intended to be in front of Marquez, not behind. Marquez could have let him go through, and pick him up as Jorge Martin would have not been able to keep the apex anyway.

For Bezzecchi and Marquez, I could not find a replay of the crash;

Here's a YT video showing some stills. It appears that Bezzecchi is ahead of Marquez.

 

Look at the video I posted above. The ground level video does make it look like it was Marquez's fault. But keep watching and the video will show the overhead view where you can see they were side by side going in to the corner, with Marquez on the inside. At that point, it is on Bezzecchi to yield. At that point the line is Marquez's.

I do not like Marquez, I don't like how he rides. He has no issues knocking others down, and this BS of getting a tow in qualifying (frankly, that is amateur hour shit) needs to stop. In all three classes they need to switch to single bike one lap at a time qualifying. It is even worse in the lower classes. But that doesn't matter when it comes to these wrecks. Whether you like him or not, neither one was him riding irresponsibly or dangerously. One was the fault of Martin, who literally ran him over, and the other was more of a racing incident with two racers going for the same line and the one on the outside loosing out.

Again, that Bezzecchi and Martin say it was Marquez's fault isn't important. As one of the two racers in each of those incidents their "opinion" is biased. But Martin was trying to pass Marquez and instead he ran him over. By the time Martin was even partially alongside (he was never truly alongside) they were already in the corner and there was no gap on the inside for Martin to go through.  And Bezzecchi already had Marquez side by side with him going into that corner. He could see he was there and failed to give him room. As the rider on the outside, that was going to end poorly for him.

[LowRyter]

Got this on my phone feed. Another GP venue in the US. Two races. I can only guess that Laguna would be the likely site, Barber would be fantastic. I doubt we'll see Indy.

The rub here is that we "only" get around 40-50k attendance on race day. Maybe 70k all weekend. The cost to sanction a race is pretty big. F1 used to be a big loser as well until the Netflix deal. Indy speedway couldn't afford F1 nor MotoGP. COTA was subsidized by $25m a year from the state of Texas until F1 took off.

Anyone have a guess where the 2nd race might be?

https://motorcyclesports.net/motogp-will-expand-to-a-second-round-in-usa/

[p6x]

29 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

Got this on my phone feed. Another GP venue in the US. Two races. I can only guess that Laguna would be the likely site, Barber would be fantastic. I doubt we'll see Indy.

The rub here is that we "only" get around 40-50k attendance on race day. Maybe 70k all weekend. The cost to sanction a race is pretty big. F1 used to be a big loser as well until the Netflix deal. Indy speedway couldn't afford F1 nor MotoGP. COTA was subsidized by $25m a year from the state of Texas until F1 took off.

Anyone have a guess where the 2nd race might be?

https://motorcyclesports.net/motogp-will-expand-to-a-second-round-in-usa/

The European media have been tooting the arrival of a NASCAR owner for the RNF Aprila team, bikes presented with the fairings mimicking the USA banner colors.

It is easy to understand Dorna would like to get more following for MotoGP in the USA, something they have so far failed to accomplish. The comparison of the number of spectators at COTA between F1 and MotoGP speaks for itself.

I can tell you that it won't be Laguna Seca, since the track no longer meets the safety criteria to host a MotoGP race, and the necessary changes cannot be made because of administrative issues? this is something I read, so I am not certain it is the truth.

What is really interesting, or at least to me, is that the US sponsor has announced the possible arrival of US pilots once the existing ones have finished their contracts, end of 2024.

My question being, could someone like Jake Gagné jump from Medalia to MotoGP? or Cameron Beaubier who has Moto2 experience? although Cameron clearly said he left Moto2 because he did not want to be out of the USA as it is required if you compete in MotoGP.